{
  "founder": "fjahr",
  "channel": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "network": "libera",
  "id": "79a0d2982e9d465f8af472ace5fef49a",
  "name": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "chair": "fjahr",
  "chairs": [
    "fjahr"
  ],
  "nicks": {
    "fjahr": 25,
    "corebot": 5,
    "pseudoramdom": 2,
    "sliv3r__": 8,
    "eugenesiegel": 1,
    "maxedw": 1,
    "lightlike": 1,
    "brunoerg": 4,
    "darosior": 21,
    "stringintech": 1,
    "theStack": 1,
    "andrewtoth_": 13,
    "Murch[m]": 4,
    "yancy": 1,
    "_aj_": 3,
    "fanquake": 1
  },
  "start_time": "2026-07-30T16:00:10.189094+00:00",
  "end_time": "2026-07-30T16:27:23.466283+00:00",
  "active": false,
  "original_topic": "Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Weekly Meeting Thursday @ 16:00 UTC | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt",
  "current_topic": "ask about testnet5 progress (darosior)",
  "messages": [
    {
      "id": "8e099365414e4e4fb313e30d89cb592a",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "#startmeeting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:00:10.188525+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "237297d2bda243028e8a3a574756527e",
      "sender": "corebot",
      "payload": "fjahr: Meeting started at 2026-07-30T16:00+0000",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:00:10.194193+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c193cfe0cd8e45c2b120d6609ed0a1ad",
      "sender": "corebot",
      "payload": "fjahr: Current chairs: fjahr",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:00:11.267214+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d64534ddd3204c06a731fef506f758d0",
      "sender": "corebot",
      "payload": "fjahr: Useful commands: #action #info #idea #link #topic #motion #vote #close #endmeeting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:00:12.340362+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e325cbfe96a64b53a4e6ed1883d3c462",
      "sender": "corebot",
      "payload": "fjahr: See also: https://hcoop-meetbot.readthedocs.io/en/stable/",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:00:13.414994+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ed31641dc0fe4c7fa63d5076761a2184",
      "sender": "corebot",
      "payload": "fjahr: Participants should now identify themselves with '#here' or with an alias like '#here FirstLast'",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:00:14.488660+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d3ff3e4faa254fee8b54de87f01f384f",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "#bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: _aj_ abubakarsadiq achow101 andrewtoth b10c brunoerg cfields danielabrozzoni darosior dergoegge dzxzg eugenesiegel fanquake fjahr furszy hebasto hodlinator instagibbs janb84 jarolrod johnny9dev jonatack josie jurraca kanzure kevkevin laanwj lightlike l0rinc maflcko marcofleon maxedw Murch pinheadmz provoostenator pseudoramdom ryanofsky sdaftuar sedited sipa sliv3r__ sr_gi stickies-v stringintech theStack",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:00:23.436236+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d2d8149e89414e6cb1abec133747b384",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "vasild willcl-ark",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:00:23.502791+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "caacc5045d58494f87dd7284c6324bb2",
      "sender": "pseudoramdom",
      "payload": "#here",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:00:24.018611+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c61998422cbb40d78835d09cfa6b7bb1",
      "sender": "pseudoramdom",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:00:27.030356+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "88fa5d5aa17346bca298ffe395655a02",
      "sender": "sliv3r__",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:00:27.364798+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6b15036438de480e84dca573e5f1b816",
      "sender": "eugenesiegel",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:00:28.593748+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "81c3fd66b3d442b3b3332c7abac2a6c6",
      "sender": "maxedw",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:00:31.683202+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "afa3711087384b57bde608994e1bee1d",
      "sender": "lightlike",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:00:41.702579+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8d64346c732f4de497c2e6c89d09ab78",
      "sender": "brunoerg",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:00:50.924631+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7d64432928ef4f029256499682d0f789",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "There are no pre-proposed meeting topics this week. Any last minute ones to add?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:00:54.144054+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b763f1436e774c9483c7dabdcf58858f",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:01:41.997392+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "70936cc378ef4284b78ceb07e1349f8b",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "re last minutes topics i'd like to ask about / discuss the progress on tesnet5",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:02:07.248889+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "60a8b938736f43a7b6f1549ea5daba82",
      "sender": "stringintech",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:02:13.518452+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6be6096cefef40bba1c6a1da11ae7756",
      "sender": "theStack",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:02:22.374846+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1a6b8181b4394764ad1c2e21a7656bf2",
      "sender": "andrewtoth_",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:02:22.747396+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b2e891d01b444d02ba8b511c880270ff",
      "sender": "Murch[m]",
      "payload": "Hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:02:41.771860+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1de168376c4c4ff7abf719194079acb4",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "Let's start with the WGs",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:02:50.799491+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "76044a061c39441c8d9197eadc2de793",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "#topic QA WG Update (brunoerg)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:02:55.826106+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8cb3aca61d13405491f7f9b0311e1bbd",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "multi bugs on multi index?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:03:33.235626+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5bbaeda4a7764538ad41a9ccd4b60a47",
      "sender": "brunoerg",
      "payload": "hi, working on the parallelization of the mutants analysis, got a huge speed up, will share more infos next week",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:04:07.730777+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0270fbc91c7a4aae8c965b421f2be143",
      "sender": "brunoerg",
      "payload": "that's all",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:04:15.439935+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2191fa6a6c80484a8cc0d6c21a3fdeea",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "#topic Benchmarking WG Update (l0rinc, andrewtoth)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:04:29.292475+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0e36304f2d7a4811be339fcd2e93d4fb",
      "sender": "andrewtoth_",
      "payload": "no update this week",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:04:36.685662+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8c0798b20c28490792d37252ecc6358f",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "Looks like every other WG is at the swimming pool",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:05:28.661293+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "be0d661bde03490a823992fdc84d03d7",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "#topic ask about testnet5 progress (darosior)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:05:42.374425+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b9609292a0e148eda270bf683f03a6d2",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "So my understanding is that progress was blocked on my BIP 54 PR, which is now open. So i'm curious what people working on testnet5 are planning",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:06:41.152282+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b812b23e81a14bb29e198995c7cf103c",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "In particular regarding the genesis block, since that's probably the real \"release\" of the new testnet",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:07:13.448721+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2bf6711e669e4ec693c41361dd8aab2d",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "I have a branch prepared with all the manual stuff that was needed for testnet4, so I think I can open a draft by the end of the week, I was just travelling and busy with publishing CISA stuff which I wanted to get out in time for a conference",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:07:24.340966+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "682cfccfaacc4a93a147a4c046d00b9d",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "One challenge i see is that if the testnet5 PR is based on top of my BIP 54 PR, it will probably not make it in before feature freeze",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:08:01.069018+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1866c3f08b6b44779d59069b4ac2afb9",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "fjahr: cool",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:08:38.086565+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2dce704f6908449b8bc3636a76c326d6",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "Someone volunteered to mine the genesis block already, I guess we will put that in the pull at the last minute when it has been reviewed, when it's out things will probably take a life of their own as was the case with Testnet 4, I think the release isn't really that imporatant in this case",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:08:50.722499+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b93dc096506c46619de7ba3a196b1aa1",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "Ok, so are we fine with starting testnet5 even if the option to use it doesn't make it in a release before something like 8 months?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:09:33.722531+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "950b8bbdc0a64ff08f70e21b08c208ed",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "Anybody else has opinions on this? I pinged Fabian and Pol before the meeting but i wanted to bring it up to the group here too",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:10:38.661309+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "97137d47355e45abba350b68bdb38361",
      "sender": "sliv3r__",
      "payload": "If we are ok with that, what happens if people start mining on top of the T5 genesis block a chain that is BIP54 invalid?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:10:45.556159+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "72746f5236a04b748d1f6e93b3826a12",
      "sender": "Murch[m]",
      "payload": "Sorry, I don't understand the problem",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:10:48.289094+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c12cdea6d8644060b50a61e7eb09f69b",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "sliv3r__: i was assuming you'd base the T5 PR on top of the BIP 54 implementation, since that what you previously told me you'd prefer",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:11:25.316878+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "87853ecaef6f490a8a95b02e05a9bcf1",
      "sender": "Murch[m]",
      "payload": "Why can't we ship support for testnet5 in v32, even if bip54 support only ships in v33?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:11:29.060102+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "aff79ec5a5fc4920a21feb696d9fb56e",
      "sender": "sliv3r__",
      "payload": "would we release it enforcing it from genesis thus Core invalidating the whole chain and making miners start again?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:11:32.311376+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "10fb72c466704504bbbe6b635ac8dc35",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "I guess we can discuss that further in the draft pull before it has the genesis block included. If reviewer turnaround is quick maybe we can still make it, I don't have a strong opinion because with T4 people just started using it before the release",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:11:37.825211+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "efd78d1a8a234ca789139c55128b9adf",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "Murch[m]: i think sliv3r__ and fjahr strongly prefer to have bip 54 activated from genesis on testnet5, because that is what the BIP prescribes",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:12:00.716885+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c165e5c76b0d418eae2ca9ed97affa4f",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "The review should be pretty straight forward because it builds on the Testnet 4 changes and is mostly identical",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:12:13.496069+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "12cffd520d2445d9aa83f7244d2932ea",
      "sender": "andrewtoth_",
      "payload": "so if there's a dependency on the BIP54 PR then there's no chance the testnet5 PR will make it for v32",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:12:42.276819+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "52094f7b25dd4fd882f6068f06f6fff1",
      "sender": "Murch[m]",
      "payload": "Ah, I see, the point being the activation of bip54 from block 1",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:12:44.091850+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "eb82d693d99545a6867bc4e55b3f2101",
      "sender": "sliv3r__",
      "payload": "darosior: That was my idea, but if the genesis block is released before we release bip54 they might start mining invalid blocks. Obviously they still can mine invalid blocks even if we release bip54, but at least we provide software to follow it.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:13:00.742496+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2d67ae1bd78f427d9a2d60bace6a9ea2",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "andrewtoth_: yes that's my point",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:13:01.591280+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f14a2c20346b42a980d4dabced82070f",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "well we discribed it in the bip because we preferred it :p but it was also what people seemed to prefer it at coredev",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:13:03.975954+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9f0f38d850c6443589aa4c5da169d64f",
      "sender": "andrewtoth_",
      "payload": "So I don't understand fjahr's optimism :/",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:13:18.998928+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "524e38b98af14b3389b64a19d420ebe4",
      "sender": "andrewtoth_",
      "payload": "I mean even if there's quick review turnaround, there's a hard blocker",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:13:54.094058+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5e9445daeb844508b009c2be4bfd5a02",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "I'm happy with whatever, to be clear, just wanted to make sure everyone's on the same page",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:13:55.668736+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "65d218cfae324e9585eec3847f0bdb03",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "sliv3r__: sorry i don't understand, i'm still assuming there is no T5 PR without enforcement of BIP 54 from genesis",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:14:51.886772+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bca982a00d234ed4bf23a3b537582417",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "andrewtoth_: why? we would only activate bip54 for testnet5, if we want to activate it later we could also try to do it on Testnet4",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:15:07.296976+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "749bf125d7d84c6fbd6917e661034112",
      "sender": "yancy",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:15:14.267254+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "82c207dcded14960859ddfaf66e1cc32",
      "sender": "andrewtoth_",
      "payload": "but to activate bip54 we would need the bip54 implementation PR merged, right?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:15:40.986620+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5af7739a112b4aebab83c84d6cab4fed",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "andrewtoth_: the T5 PR would be based on top of the 54 one, i think?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:16:01.191324+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ebf34517c92d4d3a9c9db7203500b8b3",
      "sender": "sliv3r__",
      "payload": "imho it should be based on top of the 54 one",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:16:22.067269+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "64e9c2fb134f42debac1be361f4c747d",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "So as far as i understand, current plan is: release testnet5 support in v33, but mine testnet5 genesis block in a (couple) month(s) from now?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:16:52.337528+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b67e507df7b24241abb91ea205ac0cb7",
      "sender": "_aj_",
      "payload": "fjahr: any reason not to start testnet5 from source in your repo or a similar fork? it's a testnet, so no need to gate on bitcoin core per se?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:16:54.748221+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6e19f6533890410598e81ac4c5f2209e",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "yes and the rules would be only applying to T5, just like the difficulty exception is now on T4",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:17:01.749305+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a04121a77a454b2b9422f8de8d6275d7",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "_aj_ true, that is also an option",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:17:22.935407+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4375b28d87ed49c4b8cbacd23cd766d9",
      "sender": "andrewtoth_",
      "payload": "so then we review a t5 PR on top of bip54, and decide on parameters, but don't merge it and allow community to take it from there?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:17:26.185493+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1c0a6c435d0e47f88e2ec9dba0f95094",
      "sender": "andrewtoth_",
      "payload": "Leave the t5 pr as a draft for reference until 33?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:17:37.692506+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "de0d4deeec744b9ba75f389d2e56680f",
      "sender": "andrewtoth_",
      "payload": "sorry if I'm misunderstanding",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:18:01.757021+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e368bffe78b04a82b8d18287366da8ee",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "I think what AJ says makes sense",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:18:31.726753+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2f810f6ecff34fc998353a0641805724",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "yeah, that would work IMO, just based on experience from T4",
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    },
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      "id": "257891cabb6e4743b8f545769f28f8db",
      "sender": "sliv3r__",
      "payload": "_aj_: I like that option, just publish a software to use T5 following bip54 even if the bip54 code is not perfect yet thus not ready for Core, at least usable for people to start mining",
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      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:19:04.569386+00:00"
    },
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      "id": "19fc7753a50048abb87488760df6e49d",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "If I maintain the PR without merging then that should be just as good as having it in master but unreleased for miner testing purposes",
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      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:19:20.468467+00:00"
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      "id": "043674a1fe1240278e2561b4919c4e26",
      "sender": "andrewtoth_",
      "payload": "i see makes sense, thanks",
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      "id": "96754a4885b342199083795c43b50f55",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "Well, or we can even release a patched release of v32",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:19:50.813773+00:00"
    },
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      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "fjahr: yes that's what i'm thinking",
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      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:20:07.535028+00:00"
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    {
      "id": "ec917b106de4471b83ffc35157ae6d1b",
      "sender": "_aj_",
      "payload": "we could maybe setup a solo-mining ckpool for people to point to in order to start mining almost immediately the genesis block is available perhaps",
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      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:20:08.250199+00:00"
    },
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      "id": "7cd18896b9184a2bb47665106a46c90c",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "_aj_: yeah, happy to help with that. Also have a couple S9's i can contribute to that",
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      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:20:45.614096+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6ff69499b39e481fbe72de5ffff8633a",
      "sender": "sliv3r__",
      "payload": "yep, we can just publish the endpoint in the PR description at the same time as the genesis block",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:22:03.158698+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b71d240ed07d46d282c75c6d0d9d8c04",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "Ok, then let's aim for that if nobody disagrees, first stop is the pull minus the genesis block either way, let's see if more feedback come in then. I will describe the plan in the pull description to raise some more awareness",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:23:01.446111+00:00"
    },
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      "id": "bb8790a6199b4d8781bd75ed7a57e7ee",
      "sender": "_aj_",
      "payload": "should be able to advertise the endpoint in advance of the genesis block being available even, i think; have it be 404 or mine testnet4 blocks beforehand",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:23:08.121744+00:00"
    },
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      "id": "12a8c9876432403fbd810ce75da749fd",
      "sender": "sliv3r__",
      "payload": "fjahr, sounds good",
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      "timestamp": "2026-07-30T16:23:43.636101+00:00"
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      "payload": "fjahr: sounds good, thanks",
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      "payload": "darosior: re: multi bugs on multi index? - what is this referring to?",
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      "payload": "andrewtoth_: Bruno starting diff fuzzing multi index :)",
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      "payload": "PSA: There is another ASMap run in exactly a week https://github.com/bitcoin-core/asmap-data/issues/63",
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