{
  "founder": "achow101",
  "channel": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "network": "libera",
  "id": "cabf0d7224ab44079969fc1c4de6c5e5",
  "name": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "chair": "achow101",
  "chairs": [
    "achow101"
  ],
  "nicks": {
    "achow101": 30,
    "core-meetingbot": 2,
    "kanzure": 1,
    "darosior": 16,
    "sipa": 15,
    "brunoerg": 1,
    "furszy": 22,
    "Murch1": 7,
    "gribble": 2
  },
  "start_time": "2022-12-16T19:00:22+00:00",
  "end_time": "2022-12-16T19:50:29+00:00",
  "active": false,
  "original_topic": "Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt",
  "current_topic": null,
  "messages": [
    {
      "id": "ed634a7b5ef5465f8266271cc6aa530d",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "#startmeeting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:00:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "80ed19a78c2b4e818d2f77fdcf71cfa2",
      "sender": "core-meetingbot",
      "payload": "Meeting started Fri Dec 16 19:00:22 2022 UTC.  The chair is achow101. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:00:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9069e31ebce147d5948cd2cadf51f308",
      "sender": "core-meetingbot",
      "payload": "Available commands: action commands idea info link nick",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:00:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a61be908fbfc474193825aeac227bb8a",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "#bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr furszy gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack josibake jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos Murch nehan NicolasDorier",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:00:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c3f1c20b3d044369ac91d7507a243e39",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK sipa vasild",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:00:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5868c9ac7cb04acea2f058806e584a79",
      "sender": "kanzure",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:00:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ba317757f1744978b973fc347ba204be",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "There are no pre-proposed wallet meeting topics. Does anyone have anything to discuss this week?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:01:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f31c44ce80b944f7ac980886ad95ab13",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "Hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:01:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "777c43da581946bb93ddac3d57233107",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:01:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fa25c677f4bf451480c9f2f918ffe800",
      "sender": "brunoerg",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:01:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "92c52bb2dd4f4b7db9c49d2bbaace123",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:02:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "73f50bcad30041d9b5d09b3b4616976a",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "I guess i'm curious if people have thought about using descriptors for estimating the size of inputs",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:02:02+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c431a8289daf431eaea0239a0b1bcc01",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "Rather than doing a dry run of the signing logic every time",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:02:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "962bee9f31c442479715773df9776da4",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "That seems reasonable",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:02:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "851842c3f9cf48e5b2d7bd31b47398c4",
      "sender": "Murch1",
      "payload": "Hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:02:41+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0bd1b43d228c42a8a3bbc17f7530a20d",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "It would really simplify things moving forward with more advanced scripts",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:02:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "71c2f9dbad5240249628a0bfdb9157ef",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "would it just use the worst case size estimation?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:03:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d38e9da21cf14d89b6e9aa56e00589f0",
      "sender": "Murch1",
      "payload": "Also the wallet should keep track of its UTXOs",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:03:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e2ee1bc7b14b44b7a577711bdd794df0",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "Context:  #26567 and #24149",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:03:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e266e7472ef8465dbce89e760fdc25a3",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/26567 | Wallet: estimate the size of signed inputs using descriptors by darosior \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #26567 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:03:14+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c9465a2a7dc74aacb02ad0140dbc6d68",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24149 | Signing support for Miniscript Descriptors by darosior \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #24149 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:03:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "add7e0656b89496a8f34feee527dd5cd",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "achow101: yes but eventually we should tweak that for Taproot",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:03:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "199c11b749514774a8472a10ff74170f",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "One old idea was that descriptors could contain annotations about which keys/subtrees are available or not.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:04:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "417b0d2be99543fb82b0fc5487a76af5",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "Or might be available.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:04:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b38b1d382114448e8cda1ed74a1b4966",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "The miniscript logic can do size estimation with that information, though there is no way to encode that in descriptors now.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:04:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "986f2a036e1a487abfafdfbcc9ba571f",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "Yeah. Also rust-miniscript is experimenting with another approach: https://github.com/rust-bitcoin/rust-miniscript/pull/481",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:04:55+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6f37fc30c90c4bb0893b47d7e17418a8",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "I didn't look into it, but on the surface it sounds similar to having annotations within the descriptor directly.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:06:04+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2faec685195b430bb4fa079d5a5f9538",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "how would that information would get from the user to the size estimation?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:08:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "92a578f042164ae1af7bfb9538a17002",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "since it could change per transaction",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:08:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5b599829bb3c434eb844519b44826f4f",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "Yeah, a downside is that it would be static",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:09:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "be85bf53ec1249988c8f04bd341d3b48",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "(A downside to hardcoding it within the descriptor)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:09:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8f65e044ea8049e2bb77e50f28449737",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "yeah it's more flexible if it can be done on a per-signature level, but that's a UX nightmare",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:10:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "864027580448491abdc69604c97aa1f4",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "but there may be useful static information as well",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:10:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ee8111b4ae1c456eab707d47dc0538a6",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "But i guess it's already an improvement in some potential common usecases with Taproot like have keyspend for day-to-day and a timelocked cold key for recovery. You can tell the wallet you use day-to-day to expect that all transactions you will be creating with it will be for the keyspend, and to not overestimate.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:11:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7686f910b9ca42d0b2081c8121da3813",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "e.g. you know that any signature that your bitcoin core wallet will be involved in, will have access to that wallet's private key",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:11:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "002b6133719247349b1334a794607b30",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "if it's not in a hardware wallet",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:11:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "409c70ca4d6540cd89b51023f2287881",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "it would definitely be useful to indicate that the keypath is never going to be used",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:12:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3633bb5724a34b1d951a680ea24bf7da",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "Hmm you could emulate that with partial descriptors? Only import the complete descriptor for the branches you may use on this wallet. And when estimating the size the wallet ignores unknown branches.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:12:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c4dde224b9af46fdabf5d49a1e38cbcd",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "opr even better: the key path is always is going to be used",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:12:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "97dfcce8ede843f7aed84ad70f5fe125",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "darosior: Yeah, you could, but I think that's only part of the picture, because within one script the same thing applies",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:13:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1d2dacd645fb43219902f15e5e1fa3e2",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "And there you very much may want to know everything, even informaton about execution branches you won't use.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:13:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "076a9dc5a92e4032b09e2ecd930891ea",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "separate thing,about the overpaying topic: if we overpay, coin selection would increase its chances to create a change output, which is something that we usually try to avoid.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:14:19+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7362aa83fa3e4053b6b84d74528240e4",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "sipa: wouldn't it be uncommon to have different paths within a single branch?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:14:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ab5c449e839d49b199080064e18b19fb",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "And for pre-Taproot you don't care, since you always publish the whole script anyway",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:14:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "55a4517028c64cc197581f41a0203d28",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "But even pre-taproot your witness estimation may very much depend on which keys are available.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:15:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c94cebf0298149bb81e08b739a191854",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "can we use descriptors to remove the need for the dummy signer entirely? Even with size estimation, we still need the dummy signer for filling PSBTs",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:20:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1034b32406954ab08b135f342914026e",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "I think post-partial-descriptors we can actually move the signing logic into descriptors, rather than the other way around.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:21:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c96bfc0d0e0d4c918b7c45f6e790eb35",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "And anything that interacts with signing like size estimation too.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:21:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7e3c31100eed48a3b99d20575ddb94f1",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "Yes i was thinking of going in this direction too.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:21:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3c73455a2e2c4be2b223c5da33026b2d",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "that could be useful",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:22:41+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0def9004652f4d2a8355938ccd11af6e",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "anything else to discuss?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:24:38+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "52c6c5c1c3bc4967861ea29e7bc7a203",
      "sender": "darosior",
      "payload": "I need to leave unfortunately. Thank you all for the discussion, happy to see there is interest in this.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:24:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "85f7828a8cd348619f6298550d281bee",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "Murch had a topic I think",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:25:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a9be08fc0d764c97acc03d82bd1139da",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "i have a one too.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:25:52+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "719bafa6dbeb40fd961aaedccb586402",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "Murch1: what was your topic?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:26:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e89cc77a1edd41db950686a86cd2af9a",
      "sender": "Murch1",
      "payload": "Ah",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:27:04+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "26dba10ba5624d2a836a48ac1feafd2e",
      "sender": "Murch1",
      "payload": "No, just a ceterum censeo",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:27:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6cc03383640d48019c051d55058088e5",
      "sender": "Murch1",
      "payload": "The Bitcoin Core wallet should really keep track of its UTXO pool instead of recalculating it from its list of transactions every time it needs it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:27:42+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e6fa0fd90fb1494d9050fa174cd40a83",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "furszy: go ahead",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:27:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "335d15972d084f97b60c1188950d92d6",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "Murch1: agree, I actually have a card in my board to move into that direction too.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:29:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9895d26af15b4aa79093cbac378e8cdf",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "so",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:29:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "31f1eb40d6154486842c6c6ec24d6ec9",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "my topic arose here",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:29:19+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5363a46b23fe449e808c127dd620ec39",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26661#issuecomment-1353087751",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:29:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dd19ff5031fa4a2b8aa322dfad190336",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "it's the \"Second point\" there",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:29:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f3fa4b1bcf324129914336834d6b4565",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "and S3RK answer to it.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:29:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2d226f129bf7406eb3d623fb8542ef14",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "if we agree, could \"standardize\" it and create a guideline for it.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:30:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "66d036f0d1844f16a0bfc0785a9011b4",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I've actually tended to avoid using exceptions since we don't have general exception handling",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:31:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3300d71616e74c66aef05ba7c862f454",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I've only really used them in places where there was no other way to return an error",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:31:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8d8de007751643ccae9f6651c29d9342",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "IIRC an exception will kill the gui",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:32:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3be886b1910149a685ea634facfba960",
      "sender": "Murch1",
      "payload": "furszy: Awesome!",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:32:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e56ecb5828a44c20a846f576b86117b0",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "but having some guidelines would probably be useful",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:33:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ad8c28e84b644ed592d39566e496b13b",
      "sender": "Murch1",
      "payload": "Err, just to be clear, that was directed at furszy's UTXO pool plans",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:33:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7335b16a10f64b329d74b2d0bd0ae6e0",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "yeah, I know achow101. I ended up adding a try catch to the GUI create tx flow because of it.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:33:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8a85b3aa7ea44d36a4865dde31c4452f",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "but.. it sounds that we are avoiding having a somewhat \"good\" library structure because our qt framework can handle exceptions in a generic manner",
      "action": false,
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      "payload": "*can't",
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      "id": "31033cc8f45644409fc6c34198acf0e4",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "which isn't something related to the wallet's module. It's a GUI issue.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:35:34+00:00"
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      "id": "d1f70dda298f4d68a71fea4d5e229972",
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      "payload": "sure, but we need to consider the effects of throwing exceptions on the rest of the software",
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      "payload": "it would be worthwhile to write up some guidelines and fix qt simultaneously",
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      "id": "3dd8bf0c770c4938b71c6a71809ebce9",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "given that we already do throw exceptions in some places that can already be problematic for the gui",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:37:02+00:00"
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      "id": "0cd9ff282a0d48769d83c53152a3bae8",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "by fixing at you mean the place that require to catch the exception?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:38:24+00:00"
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    {
      "id": "140fd07e3a9d4381825692e05dd17208",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "or by trying to find a way to catch them all at once",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:38:49+00:00"
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      "id": "55c2d878ae624794a45148cf7ece8d6e",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "trying to catch them all generically",
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      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:39:02+00:00"
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      "id": "49fb1627650947d1a76e5ef2e45ff49d",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "like we do for the rpc",
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      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:39:05+00:00"
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      "id": "11bbf9bbc5e344bf9a2d813d02aa64e6",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "yeah ok, I briefly tried it in the past but IIRC, there wasn't a way to catch exceptions on slots generically (at least not a way that worked fine on that time..)",
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      "id": "5a98586aa2514e2a902003c1295a723d",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "thus why ended up coding https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/666",
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      "id": "07127d0311ca4465a3b69c034a983023",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "hmm, that's something to look into again",
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      "id": "91d3a804430f413d853947b232ffd760",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "just generally though, we should try to avoid things that will cause crashes",
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      "id": "9d44c21326bf4175845fb17c181394f5",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "well. another possibility is to move all the gui backend calls to be done on a generic worker that catches all the exceptions.",
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      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:44:33+00:00"
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      "id": "9b6526ec8c1e4395a4018cfcd914a3b5",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "that could also helps in terms of the gui freezing time",
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      "id": "f058da198ae6469a91fd7cd5de765940",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "sort of \"dispatcher\"",
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      "timestamp": "2022-12-16T19:46:01+00:00"
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      "id": "5874d3702fe7440bb1466b99029eac66",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "yeah, there's definitely improvements that could be made there",
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      "id": "92483eef83be44eba0a50fb9d7484f87",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "yep. Will see if can cook something up for it.",
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      "id": "727a21b550e14a6fa84579886cf99292",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "my main point was that when we write guidelines for how errors should be emitted, we need to keep in mind how the rest of the project will handle those",
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      "payload": "and what we could do to make those parts handle them better",
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      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "any other topics to discuss?",
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