{
  "founder": "achow101",
  "channel": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "network": "libera",
  "id": "682c08e9e3064aa38bc3f8044e24d55e",
  "name": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "chair": "achow101",
  "chairs": [
    "achow101"
  ],
  "nicks": {
    "achow101": 45,
    "core-meetingbot": 2,
    "furszy": 4,
    "S3RK_": 46,
    "gribble": 3,
    "instagibbs": 3,
    "Murch": 26
  },
  "start_time": "2022-08-12T19:01:21+00:00",
  "end_time": "2022-08-12T20:00:01+00:00",
  "active": false,
  "original_topic": "Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt",
  "current_topic": null,
  "messages": [
    {
      "id": "31bda3a502904d48b3684b92de0de6b2",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "#startmeeting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:01:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "188d3a8bc6854270bbb3e47a0c76b565",
      "sender": "core-meetingbot",
      "payload": "Meeting started Fri Aug 12 19:01:21 2022 UTC.  The chair is achow101. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:01:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a8b686ebe2254257a05caa2e87034c08",
      "sender": "core-meetingbot",
      "payload": "Available commands: action commands idea info link nick",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:01:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "efc38935ad90414389f4aca344cfc26b",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "#bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr furszy gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack josibake jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos Murch nehan NicolasDorier",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:01:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "985a021ea87e4efcaf0e4fd437cf6eee",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK sipa vasild",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:01:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "331831ef5e4a45d58994303d6a84321d",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:02:02+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d6ec9fd9236b42be829e935915db44c4",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "There are no pre-proposed wallet meeting topics. Does anyone have any last minute topics to discuss?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:02:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "35c13285420840bcae9d8066f8077a85",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:03:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "14538b7b61f249fdbce7435372104c1a",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "From yesterday's general meeting, it seems like we've decided to try to get #19602 for 24.0. The feature freeze is on Monday",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:04:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ac082fa547d847bc8930e43c328e102b",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19602 | wallet: Migrate legacy wallets to descriptor wallets by achow101 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #19602 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:04:08+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "50d84c7f124b4be6a1dffeba7cc939e4",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "I started reviewing this a long time ago, but lost all the context now. Need to start from scratch",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:05:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2bece676eb0f4ce19a660d22efa1aa57",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "achow101 do you think we can get it reviewed by Mon?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:05:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c358109303d44237bdd32d613e5948ce",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "we may allow the feature freeze to slip a bit to get it in",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:06:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c4c39f83b2304f51b5ebbea0ee492767",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "but probably not more than a week",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:06:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "210035261bc244cbb288abb547356238",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "I'd imagine testing a big part of shipping this feature. What's the status with testing?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:07:54+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0d3d0b75b5494d9ea1d13b4b0f6f1c7b",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I think reviewers have been testing manually",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:08:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "71bea9d3d3064e95a62750b18f02e5fe",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "there is also a functional test",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:08:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8101071204aa4b3fa7d5fdb715de0166",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "that tests several different scenarios",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:08:40+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7a634b1bf036453d8fcd85977766fa94",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "the rpc is also marked as experimental",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:09:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "501bf945944b4b48ab33d12aba70bf6e",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "I agree it'd be great to have it 24.0 can only blame myself for not paying more attention to it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:09:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a29bb5bece2a44b79a7880f3fc628db3",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "I can spend some time on it from Mon. Probably can do either review or some manual testing. What do you think would be more helpful?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:11:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cce62bbc8b044044b322e87b9ee2e817",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "should be more a \"what might be missing\" work than actual testing",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:11:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4a268c08984246e7aab4a4cacc88d597",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I think review would be more helpful",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:11:41+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "42ea237b520a40279b9761d74b2a0592",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "the main thing is that legacy wallets can have some weird script scenarios that I might have missed",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:11:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "11babb24a0ac4c6799485df2735e6674",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "and manual testing probably won't get to those",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:12:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "eed5a6f802c044d9b079558187844430",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "got it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:12:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3edfe8e43d9f4a6ba61160750048f41d",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "is there anything else to discuss?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:14:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a0958d71f4ed400a9631e6261522de81",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "one thing",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:15:02+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4ac3fcd0b95d4d19bb9ad39e167dda52",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "I thought maybe it could be interesting to do coin selection simulations for each release",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:15:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f8066546317d4ee6bcb60dbfc70433e8",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "we do them for some PR which we think could have an effect, but sometimes the consequences are hard to predict",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:16:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bb0a380e857242079976228467972e79",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "do you think it'll be beneficial to just do checkpoints at release time? or maybe at some other interval?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:16:51+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "08c13a68c6b14a659b9f9f09fef9d518",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "that could be interesting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:16:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9b3efc86e5d3420fba17bc744a318a78",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "it would probably make sense to do one on the first rc of each release?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:17:36+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "898b954bd31d45fd91db7a6868814556",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "yep. that sounds reasonable",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:17:54+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "630f8cb051324f579012b79e184ffae7",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "is there a checklist or something where we can add a bullet point?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:18:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6ba4ff0c694c429e84aad40ae2b4e59d",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "goal is bench speed/performance or the selection results?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:18:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e90a1447541d4ec6b88375d84fd0e642",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "or feature freeze, in case you want to get a head start on a regression fix :P",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:18:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a29a895009514dd1b6204040c22c9b2f",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "unless it's just informational",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:18:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "410298a4ad4643b98ee6cda918da0467",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "catching a regression is definitely a part of it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:18:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bc430deddf3f463180640603b065ed9f",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "there's a release checklist in doc/release-process.md",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:19:36+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "35b4b9979eb74d4dbca4f74b242eb685",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "but this seems more like something that a wallet contributor remembers to do around release time",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:19:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0bfa7fad76334721a19652da082b7487",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "it would be nice if we had an automated way to do simulations",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:20:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "60fca7f1b1a24a2a8c2959319562d623",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "furszy: not speed, but rather effectiveness in terms of fees/utxo set/changeless tx",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:20:14+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e145808b94224ceea8efb6c59b314790",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "for starters: a step in release process could be just to poke wallet maintainer :D",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:21:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f9abde1ead0946edbdd0065fdd0a1228",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "ofc it'll be great to automate things. What are the challenges today? I saw achow101's optimizations got merged",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:21:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "57e59ec948684c40a87d92cc39ffe7a9",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I think it's just a matter of doing it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:22:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cac6c38f700f46729d5225584056c342",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I know that josibake has a project that kind of automates simulations",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:22:40+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1e9a9923670343cba9f0fa323b7b30c9",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "https://github.com/josibake/bitsie",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:22:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7694ababe9fd4ad49edae204f22c393d",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "yep, I used it on a VM. Do you imagine just running simulation as a CI for each PR?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:23:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "050b3c8004504e41b9fb6feec05fd7d7",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I think that would be useful, but would probably have to be separate from our actual CI",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:24:14+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8041afbc82cc4a37a8be53e281bc0da5",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "since they can take a really long time",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:24:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b42d02fadea940c5aacc6c80174196f4",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "wouldn't we hit some limits in terms of CPU/jobs or run time?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:25:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0b117ae7b00a40828c50d4559f2ca1e3",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "sound heavy to run sims for all PRs",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:25:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d2fad8a8255b42dd8d4d802f3f488db7",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "yeah",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:25:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dacf404db25a4b2592abc73114d531a7",
      "sender": "furszy",
      "payload": "and there shouldn't be many PRs changing behavior there",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:25:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "78dd0bb12f9b4c54b5bdd2940bfc43f8",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "maybe something like the \"guix build requested\" label",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:26:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bb529f8b48d340f7ad75be7b71cd8463",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "that's interesting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:26:19+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "74fddafb8ce9469db985426198011a6f",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "yeah",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:26:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6a34fe9350f047aa8209a3f35b4accb0",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "so we could just run it on the prs that would effect coin selection",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:26:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d7423bede10047b8a7224884836563a6",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:27:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a56b0b2bf2c1451faeca1334b48adbd0",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "Yeah, that sounds interesting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:29:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "359554afff3b4ccd9386e921213be7da",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "So far I've been running simulations manually, it would definitely be nice to get it automatically. How could we control how often it gets run though?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:30:27+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6bd768e9fc4c480ca531e2c0f581d3c6",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "Let's say if you spot a typo and forcepush to fix briefly after pushing, it shouldn't do the whole simulation twice.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:31:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7ef8b552b7df40c78cd3c8eb3cf7a29d",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "Perhaps if we leave a few hours until kicking off the simulation and only run it for the latest version?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:31:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fd2b91d6df2147a79008f186ff4645e8",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "I like the idea with using a label to trigger the CI",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:32:14+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e9eebc3e2933416291f49348035fc202",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "if we do it the same way that drahtbot guix builds work, then it's basically just triggered manually whenever the label is added",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:32:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c412c75f24a843838665509daeb1a506",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "the bot removes the label when it's done",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:32:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c2a1e06096a946318f55b3a86b9c6c23",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "Who can add labels?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:35:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "34d5cb2528444f5cbeba395fc7ca7226",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "anyone who has the permission",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:35:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8c78480a8de04a46aed6511ec8ce50c9",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "hm.. is it a separate permission? I think I can't modify lables even for my PRs",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:36:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "43d0d8337465490aabb4a5190acf910d",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "it's a separate permission, but I think we give it out pretty freely",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:37:04+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a6a083eea494416290125eaf1722a4c1",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "it's good that it's separate",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:38:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7605d0e20ce541dcbe7801be1ea4eaa8",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "If nobody have more topics, I have one more thing about #25647",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:40:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "61051bb11cf2425e8b3ed8ec8d48125a",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25647 | wallet: return change from SelectionResult by S3RK \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #25647 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:40:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2da42e5b76754ab8b223e0e11d2d0843",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "go ahead",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:40:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fadd3d53041243119bae783917467a2f",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "Murch pointed out a small issue with that PR",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:40:41+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dfb95ceac6d548a0ab5f14c51494e2f0",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "at high fee rates LOWER_CHANGE won't cover change_fee",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:40:58+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c315e161a57f4cfb8eb2635f089f319c",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "I think easy way to fix that is to make LOWER_CHANGE dynamic = max(50000sat, change_fee)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:41:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ba485ae46ef546c6b0d0ca5f6d7e5c54",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "any reasons why it's bad or won't work?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:41:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7c6add2103844caf9479f88899def4df",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "sorry it's CHANGE_LOWER",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:41:42+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dfd8a9f821ed4bd1994891f3c48616ee",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "That sounds fine to me",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:41:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4463dd01888740319461b183a7040ee6",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "I don't think it'll be hit until well above 1000\u00c3\u00a2\u00c2\u0080\u00c2\u00afs/vB anyway",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:42:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7d9f266654ca494d8e33956866507700",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "I'm not sure whether a change target that is exactly the fee makes sense, though",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:42:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cf503bbe83e54c46bb4631b34b162ba3",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "maybe it should rather be fee+dust",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:42:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9edafd7399314c99b73d268b43b165a7",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "it's not change traget but rather CHANGE_LOWER",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:42:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "73a86116db854fd782ea131d0802c2df",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "then change target is calucalated using GenerateChangeTarget",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:43:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f334a6a39f1044489ad3343fa2fbf6f8",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "Ah right",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:43:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0df44e31a1ca48e1a63c8c2cfc291e3c",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "you could just change it to have that parameter include the fee?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:43:41+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "807e715258074c509399490d35e100dc",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "so m_min_change_target + m_change_fee",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:43:55+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7757fbf3371541cc8ef4fad09c7fe070",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "Well, but it could still mean that if we roll a low value and match very closely, we would fall into the dust territory, right?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:43:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "348de9fa7b334035baeeff6b840a8a52",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "I don't think it's possible. Given that dustRealy is 3sat/vb and we need to bump CHANGE_LOWER at fees about 1000sat/vb",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:44:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1b8bfe2913b84486abd3bdefbc126c82",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "or rather GenerateChangeTarget should incorporate the change fee",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:44:54+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "51894fdb11de417587130b5ddcdda169",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "I like jsut adding m_min_change_target + m_change_fee",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:46:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "246b3e2c42d44881a0b22fe16bf5c633",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "that's also very clean and simple",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:46:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ad1ade431096499ab0e61db960bb263f",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "+1",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:46:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c5b312fe5ac34f27b02327d91045bffb",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "I'll add a commit to ensure change_target is always higher than change_fee using achow101 suggestion",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:47:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8bc4dd3b8075410494ab706689483df8",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "thanks",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:47:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "260bf02033f04efd891c9f55e27d3c6a",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "cool",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:48:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d26710aec3cf44178d04bff144e92262",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "anything else to discuss?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:48:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9842f0e9bc634e7e8d896cef44dbbf36",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "not for my side",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:48:38+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "64e6b9ada825434bb04450c9db8f9d93",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "I've spent a lot of time thinking about #24362 recently, I think that we could probably move it towards merging or closing",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:49:09+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d6af8a87c5764067bb98959d0e04a37d",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24362 | wallet: Do not match legacy addresses for change type by achow101 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #24362 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:49:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fd13970f5071447ba80f80d7139c302c",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "I'm still on the fence",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:49:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1d8f7cd4fbdc4ddfb4975b074ff71bdd",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "right now fees are so low, I'd say close it and just match the legacy outputs, but in the long-term I do think that it would potentially create unexpected costs for users",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:50:02+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9af7761fb45c4d7ebc69b3c360245c1b",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "that is, not to merge it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:50:16+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6ba83be5c98f4507835b6d0b4e088efb",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "if you don't want to create legacy change outputs you shouldn't have a descriptor",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:50:42+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0110935ca3c94fa89b77fac482ed4b87",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "it's possible to deactivate a descriptor",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:50:51+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "26ac4d0b6f9a40deb899080871113bdc",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "unless we're talking legacy wallets :D",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:50:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "652c0af60c1d47a3a4679e7a80013ea7",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "well legacy wallets are still a thing",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:51:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cabd1ca7e02c47bd8e5fe92aeaee0211",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "S3RK_: I think we have to operate under the assumption that most users will never change a config option or otherwise customize their wallet",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:51:36+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a4f3455ff0ad4b73919fca6ce95e993d",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "I can see why asking users to understand decsriptors could be too much",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:52:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1df2a8c3b75542a1bedde0b25915cd43",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "And it might feel \"more surprising\" to a user that they suddenly sent themselves a legacy change output than the opposite",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:52:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "db24bf15c27e4f60ab6c126c3122843c",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "but do you think it's too much for them to be aware what types their wallet supports?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:52:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7c3e4e8c33624a6cb36e45319216b706",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "Yeah",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:54:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1edfd5dcd37d4ed9818572ec12740b13",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "it feels to me adding more special cases like this make wallet behavior opaque and unpredictable in a way",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:54:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d8a027ce43d24ca79dafebf4fce37142",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "I think that most users would probably be aware w",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:54:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1d5d2953954e4754ae3d7be93c2edb47",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "of the type of outputs they use for receivling only",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:54:54+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1cbdb8c338974c4294b761b3fd79f92e",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "this is already good enough",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:55:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ef36437bfbe14aa792a80d51023d797c",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "S3RK_: \"Special case\" as in not matching the recipient with the change just for legacy, or \"special case\" matching recipient outputs in the first place?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:55:27+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "10d35a2521794fef9500d32cad98de4c",
      "sender": "S3RK_",
      "payload": "the first",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:55:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b1b282c6d74d467a981786770f7dde31",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I think right now it's not a problem, and perhaps we could revisit this if users start complaining or we see a noticeable increase in legacy usage?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:55:55+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0f8f160bafed4485a377a6f9f7e2b8da",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I would hope this becomes moot and legacy usage dies out",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:56:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e01429a59d9c42bea933bc702518b08a",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "achow101: Alright, then let's close it for now?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:56:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7e14049ba39a4ad8818fdc49de1d4d0e",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "sure",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:56:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b15502253d8846baa8a686f9f1ae49cc",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "Yeah, hopefully before feerates go up again, or at least when feerates start going up again\u00c3\u00a2\u00c2\u0080\u00c2\u00a6",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:56:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e81a0a9747444f8ca541a89cdb4a2c04",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "further proposals like josie[m]'s idea of using a different address type for change when the inputs match the recipients would also mitigate this somewhat",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:57:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8858560d3fe14c709c05e48e2b503345",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "anything else to talk about in the last minute of the meeting?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:58:27+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "05643b1902c048a4b84b0690cade6f4f",
      "sender": "Murch",
      "payload": "I like the idea (but then, it was mine :p), but I think it should only happen when we would use the given input set already for cost reasons until we have a better way to score privacy benefits in a numeric fashion",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-08-12T19:58:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "171f5da198be47ae841f94c591e553d5",
      "sender": "achow101",
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    }
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