{
  "founder": "laanwj",
  "channel": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "network": "libera",
  "id": "65df526eba824973a67004207917bd74",
  "name": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "chair": "laanwj",
  "chairs": [
    "laanwj"
  ],
  "nicks": {
    "laanwj": 34,
    "core-meetingbot`": 4,
    "sipsorcery": 1,
    "b10c": 1,
    "hebasto": 1,
    "jonatack": 7,
    "MarcoFalke": 24,
    "achow101": 1,
    "_aj_": 13,
    "lightlike": 2,
    "kvaciral[m]": 1,
    "jarolrod": 1,
    "jeremyrubin": 34,
    "sipa": 11,
    "gribble": 10,
    "cfields": 1,
    "fjahr": 2
  },
  "start_time": "2022-01-20T19:01:22+00:00",
  "end_time": "2022-01-20T19:46:55+00:00",
  "active": false,
  "original_topic": "Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt",
  "current_topic": "Style change after split-off (jeremyrubin)",
  "messages": [
    {
      "id": "694fb77b276c4abd91dc7dfcfa5229c5",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "#startmeeting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:01:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "122775ef075248e7b6c2055b8a73e033",
      "sender": "core-meetingbot`",
      "payload": "Meeting started Thu Jan 20 19:01:22 2022 UTC.  The chair is laanwj. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:01:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "146a69ec60184f868407ba89456c34ac",
      "sender": "core-meetingbot`",
      "payload": "Available commands: action commands idea info link nick",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:01:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d14641e897c24482ad84972f20daffe7",
      "sender": "sipsorcery",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:01:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "55924d187b9c4e1facbaaa61aed6ec73",
      "sender": "b10c",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:01:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f186bc6b34314288896cf7b07feeb563",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "#bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:01:40+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f5acb30c466846b782932af34e501d9c",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:01:42+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "180ca0275aa447b19a1274e6ab5874ac",
      "sender": "hebasto",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:01:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4560a9a92b094d84afafb56f0ccc5995",
      "sender": "jonatack",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:01:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2911d61b82324d46ab0b0f761a2060b9",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:01:52+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "662a901fca0444e1803880878ad49106",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:01:55+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9fd600463bda456d957ab6844498fcdb",
      "sender": "_aj_",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:01:58+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6bd56752a830424586b5a2a98233cfbb",
      "sender": "lightlike",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:01:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9d0ca1c9eed94371b2fef555bb773c25",
      "sender": "kvaciral[m]",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:02:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b70838bed89d4bf889dda9ba5617d167",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:02:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a8935b8fdc824340a2c4c4c1a3cb7688",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "it looks like there have been no proposed meeting topics this week (this can be done using #proposedmeetingtopic <topic>), any last-minute ones?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:02:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b32dd07eeed3461a9b3ea91f36a6aaba",
      "sender": "jarolrod",
      "payload": "Hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:02:55+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4dd8db194272474bac3e275c3129b3e2",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:03:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7f663016645244149cb1d2239f062286",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:03:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8673a6791a704e2ba49e0848f496131c",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "#topic High priority for review",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:04:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d6ab5974591b4a8393d9197fb362ca7e",
      "sender": "core-meetingbot`",
      "payload": "topic: High priority for review",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:04:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "efbda82d1d1e4a399ee90b1ca6813a05",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "Can I have #23438 pls",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:05:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c51b6419e66f452791aa706c050993cc",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8  : 9 blockers, 1 chasing concept ACK",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:05:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "47941d79d4af419ca0e0f045ca0b9751",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23438 | refactor: Use spans of std::byte in serialize by MarcoFalke \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #23438 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:05:09+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cb1ae7f898e447eba0d8532353ad160c",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "MarcoFalke: added",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:06:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "899cc4c8d75b4fb1977f1344d757a0e0",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "thx",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:06:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0358329ed06746588b504d3c868944a3",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:06:51+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6e77c2687c9b4b14b707b175be355ab3",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "anything else to add/remove, or is anything ready for merge?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:08:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ee8f8abee8484d7bb26b0c4e2a28aa18",
      "sender": "_aj_",
      "payload": "i think #23508 is rfm but it needs a few more acks :)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:09:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "85761b6ca11948428f8b56abe63f93ba",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23508 | Add getdeploymentinfo RPC by ajtowns \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #23508 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:09:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bd89927c14f4492d89fe5318c3233b8b",
      "sender": "jonatack",
      "payload": "#23604 had 4 ACKs before the last rebase, should be close",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:09:14+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d8733c1e3b354373922b7e67cc1691f9",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23604 | Use Sock in CNode by vasild \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #23604 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:09:16+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d5356c084b8f4b648afec96016e464d8",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "ah yes #23604 should definitely be close, and #23508 too",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:09:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b16d0c4ed0c8435181363eef7df77ead",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23604 | Use Sock in CNode by vasild \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #23604 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:09:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f09b357f59be4ae2b4bbb78a8583edaa",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23508 | Add getdeploymentinfo RPC by ajtowns \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #23508 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:09:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5f49ab4050f346ca9f9ff6b5f11d2276",
      "sender": "jonatack",
      "payload": "#22932 had acks by hebasto, achow101 and vasild. I updated it to take review feedback, re-acks welcome",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:10:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "51b7a71b51794cbeb141d4e292c71cf7",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22932 | Add CBlockIndex lock annotations, guard nStatus/nFile/nDataPos/nUndoPos by cs_main by jonatack \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #22932 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:10:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2f60f9c181cc4f01947231fcd9c7de1e",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:11:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1102626758044d55888792fad6f124e0",
      "sender": "jonatack",
      "payload": "it now contains a few commits by hebasto and vasild",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:11:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e6c4f3dfd7a04b72bb6ea2303a5ab413",
      "sender": "jonatack",
      "payload": "will look at #23508",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:11:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "645a04ff7c804936903da1b6f7331896",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23508 | Add getdeploymentinfo RPC by ajtowns \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #23508 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:11:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c4e581e4d44c434bbb7f89c2d65261a5",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "great!",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:11:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1d5b1c07ff40404796a855ba4f8ef50b",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "already started reviewing #23508, should be done soon as well",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:12:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b191fd2acaa34515a97ba77020c1bdc2",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23508 | Add getdeploymentinfo RPC by ajtowns \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #23508 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:12:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e07ca05bd8c440a6a1e6f69c7a91a7f3",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "any other topics?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:14:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f425047ccf604ea9a8848949bf70d475",
      "sender": "_aj_",
      "payload": "is the 23.0 milestone up to date?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:15:16+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1716c821156d4c42b38136d8f96ae615",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "if there's nothing else i think it's interesting to talk about making a style-change epoch after split-off",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:15:54+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d314df24cedd4c89b847cdd0d19a8c87",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "_aj_: i don't know, do you see anything off?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:16:08+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "17e0670b15af4f71817049885ddec433",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "style change epoch? oh no...",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:16:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "11f24181ccf04300a95b936b5ff9a474",
      "sender": "_aj_",
      "payload": "laanwj: just wonering if i should go through that a few times before feature freeze",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:16:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d4f466062cbe48f99b39590f857fbe98",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "Yeah, let us know if anything is missing from it or should be removed",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:16:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d532cca7b08b4a888fb29aabe30e3aa2",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/52",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:17:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "75b370d8eb3b47cf94013fec481bfa5e",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "#topic Style change after split-off (jeremyrubin)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:19:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7925f4102deb44bab9b0e91f04140125",
      "sender": "core-meetingbot`",
      "payload": "topic: Style change after split-off (jeremyrubin)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:19:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "50ca7ddb77a245198098d85448525480",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "see #22969",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:19:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "406a1ef271e84b4482883ea56b93a5f7",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22969 | Release schedule for 23.0 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Issue #22969 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:19:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0090b1b5d9a341b682b02e56ddf4389b",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "the concept would be that after split off for T days bigger cleanups can be prioritized",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:19:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "92cb1b50af024370b424f8eb58ae4f41",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "and then after T days, cleanups would not really be considered",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:20:08+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3097f9ffa70d40ce925ead7d08c5dc15",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "not a fan of all-over-the-place changes that break every other PR just for style's sake tbh",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:20:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0764e325c23141c3883360f2323b00b0",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "concept nack in general on invasive style changes",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:20:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1a765fcebc7b423cb9b90c7cf669c049",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "yeah",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:20:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2ebb3e0c07cd4175a73d83401396c0a6",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "this is to allow for cleanups while minimizing rebase work",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:20:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e92f90b56a1648058512b0edc12d3a56",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "refactors that are useful for other reasons... sure, on a case-by-case basis",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:20:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bcc5ff47f06a4d4dafcd89a9df8810c4",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "not sure anyone cares anymore but we used to not do this and i think for good reason",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:20:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "de25d503778a485597a9d346c3d7e80b",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "i am nack on the invasive changes as well, but it seems people do continually want things like changing all C style casts",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:20:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f1abbc0a5e3b4c8faa85d121700c1a1a",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "nack on the casts change, not only is it invasive it's risky",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:21:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "88a32a88874d4c059d162a3ebc842f31",
      "sender": "_aj_",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15465 maybe relevant history/context",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:21:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "71e574cbdc05458284e0149419f81531",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "or things like moving class A from file X to file Y to clean a linker supression",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:21:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fb7fcd2b9dd6474c9569f109b23a5d1a",
      "sender": "_aj_",
      "payload": "personally i like/prefer the \"do useful work, and clean up as you go\" approach that we're already doing",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:22:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c0c47646fd6848c29affe1ddb1c8a347",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "you mean breaking circular dependencies? yeah, that can be valid",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:22:19+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ef3300d0a7c84677bc29fddba79d55fa",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "[20:20] <sipa> refactors that are useful for other reasons... sure, on a case-by-case basis",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:22:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6adaf395fd66445b82bbe38eced1040e",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "e.g. #17786",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:22:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c502180d0e184e17bff34f72926f2339",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "Agree with sipa that this is a case-by-case decision",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:22:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ea10e858cf26463caf0d433ee5c370f0",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17786 | refactor: Nuke policy/fees->mempool circular dependencies by hebasto \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #17786 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:22:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4785ead6520e46d48dc6dc9362af7dcd",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "aj: agreew",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:22:38+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a39b19376d704245b2b7c6a7a54884f2",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "i don't see that as much of a style thing",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:22:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "eb9bd4d0541d42f197bf743d4390786f",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "well the point would more be to still do these things when they make sense, but contain it to a minimally disruptive part of the release cycle",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:23:02+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d91479257fb046dd97e8a70367b2e754",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "circular dependencies are just bad design",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:23:09+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "09560d7a69a147a9b8cbf9ea134b112e",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "laanwj: but you can see how that's very disruptive for rebasing",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:23:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "93fce0ba6a554edcbcd57e385bba0a43",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "sure",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:23:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "536a29b7691b47eb9e9bafa239fd786d",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "so the point of a cleanup epoch would be to do cleanups like that only in e.g. the first month after split off",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:23:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8f0342d26f314495ab0331b9d5cd29a7",
      "sender": "_aj_",
      "payload": "it's maximally disruptive for anything we want to backport to the latest release though?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:23:58+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3689ae976d544cd2b4ec8188f7e15fd2",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "jeremyrubin: Why would a specific epoch be minimally disruptive? I'd say it depends on the case",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:24:04+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "56249742d71b46b78daec3150e671611",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "I conceptually agree that there are better/worse times to make invasive changes (assuming they're justified)... but they also have to be ready at that point.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:24:09+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fbd415de640d4038ac47d55252ce2490",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "yeah i'm not tied to a specific time",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:24:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d3b9057a4bfd4d7cab0ad69dd103bd9d",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "And indeed, when that is depends on the case.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:24:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "09438e3552b04e2d863aca2197e36ade",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "If you are touching a part of the code that no one else is touching, then the time doesn't matter",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:24:38+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7e5e297a7d314c78a69ebde3fcd1fe33",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "just thinking that it might be something that leads to less contributor frustration",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:24:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7c17a8a67ced46279d76ed91dc6b465a",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "if people who work on these things know when it is appropriate and people who don't don't have to argue for not merging a conflict",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:25:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "256d9f92cb7b47deb5add7599d7d6611",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "If you are touding a part of the code that is touched by others, then you'll have to order the changes anyway",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:25:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "68d5090bd4a949499a8723a315be655f",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "Right, but the risk is that we designate a specific timeframe for refactors... and then we get a torrent of refactors in that time that all conflict with each other.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:25:51+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cd93b61431394e2e84c9f9fce16df3dd",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "possibly. although it's not clear it's a bigger problem than as is v.s. just more apparent",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:26:50+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c96b8ef5974f4956ba74e31bd4529cc9",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "if we queue up the refactors and people discuss them before investing time maybe that can help mitigate it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:27:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ddd27031ee0e4473ae4ef1b75cf49d62",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "I'd also expect it will be harder to find reviewers if there is a time pressure/specific time slot",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:27:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c0ff18599d314aaf895a30eeea8cbd23",
      "sender": "jonatack",
      "payload": "seems best to remain ad hoc about it (as it is currently)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:28:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "efc266e0574843be8a9867dbe49ba48c",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "If you are worries about invensting time, you can also ask during the meeting if the concept makes sense (or in an issue)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:29:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "44c689f9314f4fe284e72fad2cf84ca4",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "i guess so, it seems sad though because i think it does contribute to burn out and frustration.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:29:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4859f50a43d14fc2b55a9205ea97937d",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "i dont spend time on refactors like this anymore afaik so not really concerned for me",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:30:02+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "da86cde327b84e62b699af21038b7c35",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "Generally writing code is trivial compared to reading and reviewing not so",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:30:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b9139be7c8b142e6b9b785b7f6dd1dd3",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "s/not so//g",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:30:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7c6fa32355b741aa960810c0c9668304",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "i think the main benefit is for people not working on these",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:30:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3590be1c8dff443398143f6be2c2e85e",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "If i have a feature/improvement X and there is also a refactor Y in the pipe that would confilict does it makes sense for me to refactor/rebase X?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:31:27+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8d1d50ce16274ec6b7b6f33e7ae2b5ed",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "If I knew that the cleanup work would not pre-empt, i might spend time more actively on X rather than speculating on Y",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:31:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3258024de3044e65be249c9df9999108",
      "sender": "jonatack",
      "payload": "one can make the argument that adding process can contribute to dev frustration as well",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:31:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f6582f9487f44700bc817bf3704678bb",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "jonatack: good point, process ==bureaucracy, however, it also leads to getting a clear answer on when or how something can proceed",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:32:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0a459376ebcf46cf8960008994978b66",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "I think most frustration is simply due to lack of review feedback. I don't think that designating times for certain kinds of changes will improve that (and it may even work the other way around... \"I was told this was the time for this kind of change, and I *still* don't get feedback!?\")",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:33:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "721316c337d24b7f8b9e89317690408f",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "i personally favor clear answers v.s. unclear ones",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:33:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5264f0249fd14df68abe35caeaf40c6d",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "If you think that X should go before Y (or the other way round), you should say so in a review comment",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:33:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fdd26043f10f4c829fa67cbecd198bcf",
      "sender": "_aj_",
      "payload": "drahtbot already says that when it reports conflicting prs",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:33:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "55f77f4867d949d1be61ca85eb16c162",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "_aj_ afaict drahbot doesn't analyze for merge order, just for conflicts",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:34:09+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "663869e73146482aaa34a36816cd3c06",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "and it's buggy w.r.t. silent conflicts",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:34:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5585beaca7b24d0d9f82e3f3df1b9be1",
      "sender": "_aj_",
      "payload": "jeremyrubin: no it tells you to figure out which one should go first",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:34:19+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9e833c1de4da45e98c37bedc668ec466",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "(err unsolvable)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:34:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1cbc973f48c14f86b9fb68492da6e847",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "Jup, it was the intention behind the comment to focus reviewers on one of the conflicts",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:34:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ad1b2c8051124a389dc49f14b5961f26",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "DrahtBot re-runs all CI every 9 days, so (some) silent conflicts are now detected",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:35:02+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "81d010369c3d42abbf72514243e756a9",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "that's good!",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:35:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "251c8ef84b9647cb8c4c55736687f260",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "anyhow it sounds like most people are happy with the status quo on this stuff so it's not a hill i'd die on",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:35:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "afc82a599b7641269b858b0c1a27381e",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "DrahtBot can't tell you which order to merge. This is up to the reviewers",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:35:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1278c40d83034959a260c417c7246b4f",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "I wouldn't say I'm happy - the frustration you speak of, and the impact on contributors is certainly real. I however don't think your suggestion will improve it.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:36:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "508c46af20ee438380ded7c53585fbc7",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "I mean frustration is certainly real, but I think a \"refactor window\" is not a clear and trivial to solve that.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:36:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b60c6711ddc94913977f5e5e2579057d",
      "sender": "lightlike",
      "payload": "seems in practice it's more up to the maintainers - I rarely see discussions about merge order amongst reviewers",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:36:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f561b52274a6474b8dad730a63928cf1",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "it would be an indication to the maintainers",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:36:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7adbc04025b14cc88155a1039d2fd3c3",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "lightlike: It is implicit in where people put their ACKs",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:37:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dbe50083f62143f893aed99eef1e0ed4",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "sipa: fair, i'm not tied to any specific suggestion. is there something else you think might be an improvement?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:37:14+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fa7b8e851cc345519f18780e4e99644c",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "I'm afraid I don't have concrete suggestions.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:37:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f6874eb0b9ff4388bbe46642a3fd43b8",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "it definitely happens that someone asks for something to be merged before/after another PR",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:37:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e6780050ef6b42fdb8514ba3375c166c",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "is this a harmful thing to try over e.g. 2 releases?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:38:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "094e04c8a1f5426c8601ee21ddb76858",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "not often, but it's also not often necessary",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:38:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1427369898f24df1a066782305c5e4e8",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "or do we feel confident the problems would exceed the benefit?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:38:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "832df41d7140495d85adfa99ebdf0ec9",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "i'm all for trying something if the status quo isn't happy and if it doesnt help trying something else",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:39:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fb65f1aee2dc41ae8cb41280d8aa3e7c",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "that kind of coordination tends to be pretty hard to do in this project tbh",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:39:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9800552a6c44464489c35d95fcda6a9f",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "I think it's such a case-by-case thing that trying to institute a process for it isn't helpful.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:40:09+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ebc91701c7fa47f5986e9cfc73189c9e",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "Jup, would be hard to announce that the next 12 days from today are the \"refactor window\" and explain what that even means in practice",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:40:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3c3612d324204d96ba25c98cab024b01",
      "sender": "_aj_",
      "payload": "are there any refactoring tools that make it easy to see \"oh you're just changing from Foo* x and x->bar to Foo& x and x.bar\" these days?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:41:42+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cc9765e88cb445cba36104a6ef0581a8",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "scripted-diff?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:42:02+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9326a6ed7ba9423195bd91dec41f7fa7",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "\"--word-diff-regex=.\" ?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:42:04+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "93402f084dce425c8baf685f21a07840",
      "sender": "_aj_",
      "payload": "i mean syntax aware, rather than textual",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:42:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3bae73dc829e4a7daa86c38418bb6b42",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "there's no tooling for AFAIU testing a scripted diff against all current reported conflicting branches",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:42:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1b890d65e95a47878dd536bb5dc44359",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "_aj_: You can write one based on https://github.com/llvm-mirror/clang/blob/master/tools/clang-diff/ClangDiff.cpp ;)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:43:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "65cc95d03078412c9ea22af20dca02e1",
      "sender": "_aj_",
      "payload": "syntax aware can see I'm changing Foo::bar to Foo::m_bar and see that Baz::bar is unrelated while scripted-diff generally can't eg",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:43:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d3ad605354144d25a8817a77527d24e9",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "syntax/structure aware refactoring tools for c++ are really difficult to do, people have been trying for decades at least",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:44:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4bf1f780fff649fa9a043edb966e88de",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "i think clang has some tooling nowadays but it's eally fiddly",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:44:42+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "751e9c005dff48f9a90b2fa680078dae",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "Let's use clang-refactor in a scripted-diff *hides",
      "action": true,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:45:19+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b2461e65e02644fd8b3f500fbfe538d7",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "for easier to parse languages like java it's quite common",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:45:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8e7c42f8d02d4bcc90ea8b8d91a24343",
      "sender": "laanwj",
      "payload": "lol",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2022-01-20T19:45:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "28e1e87550064c0c8cbb54ea35545c2b",
      "sender": "laanwj",
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