{
  "founder": "achow101",
  "channel": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "network": "freenode",
  "id": "320a7e165e7d406287ec38f5338cef33",
  "name": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "chair": "achow101",
  "chairs": [
    "achow101"
  ],
  "nicks": {
    "achow101": 39,
    "lightningbot": 2,
    "provoostenator": 27,
    "jonatack": 3,
    "luke-jr": 16,
    "fjahr": 1,
    "sipa": 24,
    "gribble": 2,
    "phantomcircuit": 1,
    "bitcoin-git": 1,
    "meshcollider": 3,
    "gwillen": 8
  },
  "start_time": "2020-06-05T19:02:25+00:00",
  "end_time": "2020-06-05T19:36:00+00:00",
  "active": false,
  "original_topic": "Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | This is the channel for developing Bitcoin Core. Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics https://gist.github.com/moneyball/071d608fdae217c2a6d7c35955881d8a",
  "current_topic": "Changing PSBT signer policy (achow101)",
  "messages": [
    {
      "id": "79701459861242fc8090efba1648143d",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "#startmeeting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:02:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f3def46868654c568c5c07a96d054c8f",
      "sender": "lightningbot",
      "payload": "Meeting started Fri Jun  5 19:02:25 2020 UTC.  The chair is achow101. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:02:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "06d43f37a16a478cb752c3cdad3611d3",
      "sender": "lightningbot",
      "payload": "Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:02:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0cdd5c823cd94c24a5f2fe643fc173f9",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "any topics?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:02:52+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3e60fe5856954527ab4d9c4ce8f57822",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "HWW?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:03:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fcb3224c2c374015a9685a1ab1964fc6",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "one thing I would like to discuss is whether we should change our signer policy for PSBTs",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:03:19+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a0edb232663c45e9a73adb4b1a806221",
      "sender": "jonatack",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:03:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9100b64beaa04b24b58f6c9df3255dc3",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "I haven't done much other than rebase, but happy to answer questions",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:03:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0fb93144124f40e1af40f3f40f89afe2",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "Oh yeah, that's a good one.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:03:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a0841729f87c41f48c71bfdfda12d8ea",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "achow101: presumably with a synced node, we can access the full input tx?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:04:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ae95c526add0498bb3a60935e1f1eab8",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "#bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral ariard digi_james amiti fjahr jeremyrubin lightlike",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:04:19+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "900e6e3a54474477a28379b795b24a61",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "emilengler jonatack hebasto jb55 elichai2",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:04:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "eb1beba77ac346dfa96dd7918ea62412",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:04:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1f0c34a0a3554419ba49509cb4407d7d",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "having thought about it more, i'm not sure it's worth requiring full input txn",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:04:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e346a4e26d624153b21887959ec1674c",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "#topic HWW (provoostenator)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:05:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c1817e79f5c049e1b281e3bdc705cff9",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "any updates on that?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:05:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "32d4162a4ca2407a8ea583c0d24529db",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "FYI meshcollider broke is IRC and can't send messages",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:05:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6d7ed61cd85f49edbd6e852454971361",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "The first PR for that is #15382",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:05:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c47debc9bab44b23abf48933fefb0a57",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15382 | util: add runCommandParseJSON by Sjors \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #15382 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:05:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7d6ae239e12d4d4db15f3b82683eed51",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "given that the same attack model (software wallet malicious, able to make the vixtim sign twice with hww) already enables the attacker to e.g. be paid twice",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:05:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7030d0a6fa2a4deca4f8abe6214f7994",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "And the meat is in #16546",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:06:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4cd61787e12245a69eea1b589a27e131",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16546 | External signer support - Wallet Box edition by Sjors \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #16546 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:06:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f1c1e6b3f3254737b2898ecd6fa0b010",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "so just review those?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:06:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5ab7e9bb97a6418aabb481b3a8bfc2f4",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "achow101: yup",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:07:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d297e5da604b481f8b753da6cbbb8c67",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "At least as a start.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:07:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b9e15d806503456d94b42ec7029f5ae1",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "cool",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:07:42+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "771a3184f645420dbf77cc967c8d14a0",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "anything you wanted to discuss right now?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:07:51+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "25a13e732ab645aeb593f3c2cf65248f",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "There's also some dependencies",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:08:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c9101fa7362841c89bc5aa0519548023",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "But I think those two PR's can be reviewed mostly without worrying about these other dependencies. Just go for them if you're bored.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:08:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "478dacf4208940ef998e31fbf06f7488",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "Nothing specific to discuss.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:08:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ba3d4aa08be748e78c309eb9f6e67ca5",
      "sender": "phantomcircuit",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:09:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a7f99ccbedc2494e96f328e081d6d110",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "alright",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:09:50+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "16eb76f828bd40f3a800e62409572082",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "#topic Changing PSBT signer policy (achow101)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:10:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "845e2c5910884116a989cb1762c7c309",
      "sender": "bitcoin-git",
      "payload": "[bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #19180: refactor: Replace RecursiveMutex with Mutex in Shutdown() (master...200605-shutdown) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19180",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:10:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bef9ef0bdb274eb098c5f8cb7aaab78a",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "So there was the whole announcement from trezor 2 days ago about the thing in segwit where a signer could be tricked into sending money into fees",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:10:51+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fb0ada3cb2f741b187a9e5cae1cfa991",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "and they're requiring full prevtxs (i.e. non_witness_utxo) for segwit inputs",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:11:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4087630d5fb841088403e530bcb12ebf",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "do we want to do the same policy to protect against that attack?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:11:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "45c28ef219af4ce58a117652e824896b",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "ping",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:11:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "de9373809b89451bab01d3af2f84f655",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "A less drastic measure could be for the device to remember the last couple of inputs it signed?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:11:38+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "423fe8f552474e239be7f7b8261f8e1b",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "meshcollider: pong",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:11:38+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4365b614434745758a1190ac76a7046c",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "it seems that sipa doesn't think so",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:11:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "88dc8c3e77224e04aa22c2119505d9d4",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "provoostenator: i'd say that's far more drastic, but it's also the only real solution",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:12:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bc6d830c878143e19a88ef4d8a055e5e",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "Yay it's working finally",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:12:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "efa6b5dce40d4ec89a6ab0df03f29f33",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "Sorry about that",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:12:08+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f316dc820a5c46568147ff00534e36d5",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "provoostenator: I think that would require more storage than they have",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:12:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2cfa75326bed48d1ac93ad79c1055d5d",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "sipa: why is just including the inputs not a solution?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:12:51+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b89d4354ff344a59a3363c5c16ef1bf7",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "luke-jr: that doesn't prevent double paying",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:13:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3e90129a3e0f4a73a076bf9005cc3ccf",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "Not having giant PSBT files was a nice improvement...",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:13:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "46fd711b19c64afaa1150aa5b0def0c4",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "luke-jr: it prevents this specific attack",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:13:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f622e43a8ee34a9dbbe2b84c7e09bf9d",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "but it doesn't prevent the victim fr being told \"your signature is invalid, try again\" and then just paying the attacker twice",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:13:55+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5a4242df24f94217952462f58f5b9c7c",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "well, that's social engineering",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:14:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9bd64ebff875475a921da4a3d062e2ce",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "sipa: but that would be new inputs, so remembering previous inputs wouldn't matter",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:14:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5d4bb6a2d66d44889fe7c7adb9154b61",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "achow101: remembering the address could",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:14:27+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dbf4cfbedcb943e7b73e90d47e534ead",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "ie, strictly forbid address reuse",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:14:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ae11843143094fb08a0ce81e3f344dd5",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "but social engineers can probably work around that too",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:14:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "13717378c1c548bfbb7f963d7e28a6b1",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "So the attack mentioned, it doesn't matter who you were paying to? Or does the attacker have to be the recipient?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:15:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2f10dc9598e44087bc2a2856e31d3904",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "luke-jr: right, it is - but my point is that if \"attacker can convince the victim to sign twice\" is part of the threat model, then this attack isn't the only problem",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:15:19+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cf357941e2d84350960db5bce2835594",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "hmm, true",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:15:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b9d80e4e54dd4fb3b0cff138e7ae8d25",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "and this specific attack can be worked around, but others can't be with stateless HWW",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:15:38+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f0f98c7944b04968a445edd215b250fd",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "provoostenator: it doesn't matter. the amount lost was going to fees",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:15:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2ddd5550efab458c830cb6fa35bd9043",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "Right, so I don't think a spend-twice bug is fully comparable",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:16:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e99c5405f0234438935ff9dd880448ba",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "the recipient does need to be the same address, though, right?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:16:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "700e3a511ee54efdb0b07a3d18c15d61",
      "sender": "gwillen",
      "payload": "that depends on whether the victim is looking at the address",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:16:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8a30348e1c84494d8fb88614e4f4c0d1",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "for the currently-discussed attack, yes",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:16:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7ab6f214f9454a959dfc4010c4869e97",
      "sender": "gwillen",
      "payload": "we're already positing they're signing twice even though they're only sending one transaction, so it's already got a social engineering component",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:16:52+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "afb19f580400409d90f0f0149f3ac6ec",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "If the victim doesn't look at the address, they're toast regardless.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:16:52+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c07b1e65122948059021eb02c1516c9c",
      "sender": "gwillen",
      "payload": "but, this is true, \"oops please retry\" is a much smaller social-engineering ask",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:17:16+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6c903f331f2945f29f1a856eb0fc2eca",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "gwillen: than what?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:17:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "46f231175ee440f8ba197a7546974f94",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "Once your computer has the kind of the malware that can do that, it can do so many things...",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:17:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6e2e4abc888f4e4f87c0afdec58a2c5a",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "deterministic input sorting could fix this too I think?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:17:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "39965aa2f27d4b4d962e90f6fc3f5d8b",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "luke-jr: i don't think so",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:18:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "74c954af13754833b9ef096d126b9a63",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "It can fool your browser, fool the UI of your wallet where you \"check\"  the address, mess with clipboard, alter the chain on disk.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:18:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9433cfc01ae14591afdef20ac8bcbe13",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "provoostenator: but otoh, malware on your comnputer is what hw wallets claim to protect against",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:18:09+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "abc965fb7cf84a7eac51564efb6e254e",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "luke-jr: they do, but only to a limited extend",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:18:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6bba97ea1f75448e90f7b8a6b226c17e",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "They can't trivially run off with your private keys",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:18:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2d5cc35438ab4c89b1d7ff1858e6a802",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "this attack already has a strong social engineering component in convincing the user to sign twice",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:18:55+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3cfd3ab7cc0740bd8634e174b083d952",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "But if you just let someone take over your computer long enough..",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:18:58+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d61b32b228e24ac0967c7e9691c1528d",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "Would it help to store block height as a nonce?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:20:41+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f202960eb4224c09b30125709e58d803",
      "sender": "gwillen",
      "payload": "achow101: people are used to things like that, though, so I think most people unaware of the attack would fall for it, even if they're otherwise careful",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:20:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "57fb2f50a56744088356598627b692c7",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "nLockTime I mean",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:20:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "797f3fef5441451d9fddd2421b1afb79",
      "sender": "gwillen",
      "payload": "(for example, you would have to do that if USB flaked out, probably)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:20:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c8cf7105f5d7466b8f1f85ffde1157e0",
      "sender": "gwillen",
      "payload": "the coldcard has a big advantage if you're having to carry the transaction across by hand each time vs just spitting it over USB",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:21:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c71468efb647423ca9203ddff02e5296",
      "sender": "gwillen",
      "payload": "this attack really does not work in that setting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:21:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "655a6f761c424d4188ff02c4d6ba8bb4",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "i think the only feasible solution is education really",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:22:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "581e6c1d1ff3410dba12c3c228d3399b",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "of course fixing this specific bug is a good thing of it comes at no cost",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:22:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4bfa9df142bf44f9b23c946277d388ec",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "but i'm unconvinced breaking \"only need utxo to sign\" is worth it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:22:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "71c225e0125e4407a04e2ee70c0fc500",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "sipa: education as in educating users they should inspect their transactions before sending?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:23:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e26daf7716184381b43f3d4618cabb82",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "that they should be wary if they're told to retry signimg",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:23:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e25dccc8022148edbe986356aab36ffb",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "For the RPC it's cheap to add an opt-in feature to fill in the UTXO for SegWit, for GUI I would find it cluttery.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:23:19+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "970b16e8951e49618b3e51d4f93793f6",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "oh we should add the full input tx where possible, i think",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:23:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "900ed96d434046a6b7a7adb4f1811970",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "for bitcoin core this is easy to do",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:23:52+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2f0eeb1420894a009451e138b4b2d7ab",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "to be compatible with latest firmwares that fix this, we still need to add the full input tx",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:24:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d127734b13d64ffcbcf757cda7c0ebfc",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "but i'm not sure about requiring full input tx when signing",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:24:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e69bd2f6665c4f9ba3ae46cfde180366",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "add it, but don't require it to sign",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:24:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "325257e3014448d38e326a8c2abca84a",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "this does break compatibility with previous versions of Core and HWI",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:24:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a9d8b4afbbd54adaaf98a56897abce20",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "is I think what sipa's saying",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:24:27+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b82bed5e2de04b1787c427a175912808",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "right",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:24:41+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e20fa20d1d7044e39062f674bb82019f",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "indeed",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:24:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3406ba585e974e4ab42b06b0236edbf3",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "ack",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:24:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6227f2d29d3b4284899aa51c9a1441e1",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "unless we can get trezor to reverse their stance",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:25:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a051f0a14621401d9cb321ccefd27f69",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "which seems unlikely",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:25:09+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "891913cdbda7474d937cb175f0b5b3f9",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "it may be more likely than you assume",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:25:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5c74b3c171df43669d1d9172c5cd6f58",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "i believe trezor, ledger, bitbox, and coldcard have/will have the same requirement to provide the full previous tx",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:25:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4db88b40fd294942abffd0baf6a3dc91",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "it's *possible* (but not certain) that the motive is to get another security fix released without drawing attention to it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:26:16+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2f36d114a0a746bc9845bb887d77d1bb",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "if that happens we have no choicw to follow suit",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:26:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "84d2d266ff92414caca0dfdacb5a6772",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "although I think ledger does something where they allow single input segwit without full prevtx",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:26:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9481d866b0af45dfb63464712b0fc0ac",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "+but",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:26:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6701af193d58482c97b06aed236a3daf",
      "sender": "gwillen",
      "payload": "achow101: I was under the impression that hww other than trezor were making this a user option at most",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:26:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a6db17908a38479d9139fc4b3f6ae6e2",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "gwillen: i've been working through a bunch of trezor issues over the past couple of days, so I havnen't had the change to test out ledger's changes",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:27:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f14a6e3dacd54bd6ac47092e124faecb",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "coldcard hasn't published a new firmware yet but I'm told they probably will",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:27:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e1c7dda4d48e4a14bb1be5e2d48a24a3",
      "sender": "jonatack",
      "payload": "luke-jr: not entirely implausible given how it was handled",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:27:50+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d12f7c6000734a74a841b19edaa9aa11",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "luke-jr: then they did a real poor job of it by giving users a good reason to not upgrade.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:28:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4ea047e9ccaa47bda704ca1e5ac3a59e",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "achow101: are users getting that impression?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:29:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "adcd016cac35449998c9c6c56ab4a083",
      "sender": "jonatack",
      "payload": "makes 2 recent trezor upgrades now that were better to avoid",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:29:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cc143d5e8a224d7899833a30bcbfa446",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "luke-jr: yes. electrum, wasabi, and btcpay server no longer work with the new firmware. so users who want to keep using those software with their trezors are incentivized to not upgrade",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:29:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d721e3121fb44b7f86b5699a423951d1",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "What happens when you do add the full input tx, and give it to an non-upgrade hardware wallet?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:30:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4821ec3b5d7a4750a8f81cc8bd3ba211",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "provoostenator: usually they're fine with it. but HWI makes some assumptions about that so it makes the wrong signature",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:30:52+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "66725c2a65d0499ea4e06ebdd9d90618",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "Updating HWI is probably the easiest part.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:31:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d7713ede332b462b836cc4de98e41ec4",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "i have to run for a bit, will be back in 10-15 or so",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:31:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7bc5e62f4dee4a80b6c7b577477d903f",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "provoostenator: you would think so....",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:31:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e6f6e254d104442787decc2d3ed699c9",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "Even if we added support for this, it'd be a while before a release / backport.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:31:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "70b77c442b0d456fb7917389e643084a",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "right",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:32:19+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "238a79e81409494185e4fab715c7272e",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "provoostenator: that's up to us",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:32:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fe2b9bc6d5a74087b52b40ff49139204",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "True",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:32:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d6b9316d5aee440c9729b596bca3b700",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "any other topics?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:33:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "13fa1c0f3d4c474c939d46f2f75156b9",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "seems not",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:35:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5dd9f6727a4849dba999768903fe22ae",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "#endmeeting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:36:00+00:00"
    }
  ],
  "events": [
    {
      "event_type": "START_MEETING",
      "message": {
        "id": "79701459861242fc8090efba1648143d",
        "sender": "achow101",
        "payload": "#startmeeting",
        "action": false,
        "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:02:25+00:00"
      },
      "operand": null,
      "id": "79701459861242fc8090efba1648143d",
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:02:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "event_type": "TOPIC",
      "message": {
        "id": "e346a4e26d624153b21887959ec1674c",
        "sender": "achow101",
        "payload": "#topic HWW (provoostenator)",
        "action": false,
        "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:05:05+00:00"
      },
      "operand": "HWW (provoostenator)",
      "id": "e346a4e26d624153b21887959ec1674c",
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:05:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "event_type": "LINK",
      "message": {
        "id": "c47debc9bab44b23abf48933fefb0a57",
        "sender": "gribble",
        "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15382 | util: add runCommandParseJSON by Sjors \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #15382 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
        "action": false,
        "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:05:49+00:00"
      },
      "operand": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15382",
      "id": "c47debc9bab44b23abf48933fefb0a57",
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:05:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "event_type": "LINK",
      "message": {
        "id": "4cd61787e12245a69eea1b589a27e131",
        "sender": "gribble",
        "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16546 | External signer support - Wallet Box edition by Sjors \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #16546 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
        "action": false,
        "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:06:10+00:00"
      },
      "operand": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16546",
      "id": "4cd61787e12245a69eea1b589a27e131",
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:06:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "event_type": "TOPIC",
      "message": {
        "id": "16eb76f828bd40f3a800e62409572082",
        "sender": "achow101",
        "payload": "#topic Changing PSBT signer policy (achow101)",
        "action": false,
        "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:10:00+00:00"
      },
      "operand": "Changing PSBT signer policy (achow101)",
      "id": "16eb76f828bd40f3a800e62409572082",
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:10:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "event_type": "END_MEETING",
      "message": {
        "id": "5dd9f6727a4849dba999768903fe22ae",
        "sender": "achow101",
        "payload": "#endmeeting",
        "action": false,
        "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:36:00+00:00"
      },
      "operand": null,
      "id": "5dd9f6727a4849dba999768903fe22ae",
      "timestamp": "2020-06-05T19:36:00+00:00"
    }
  ],
  "aliases": {},
  "vote_in_progress": false,
  "motion_index": null
}