{
  "founder": "wumpus",
  "channel": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "network": "freenode",
  "id": "cfd6d3eb4fdb4b609f76c451a93e76ff",
  "name": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "chair": "wumpus",
  "chairs": [
    "wumpus"
  ],
  "nicks": {
    "wumpus": 34,
    "lightningbot": 2,
    "jnewbery": 1,
    "emilengler": 1,
    "sipsorcery": 1,
    "promag": 4,
    "achow101": 3,
    "kanzure": 1,
    "hebasto": 3,
    "luke-jr": 31,
    "jonasschnelli": 33,
    "fjahr": 3,
    "amiti": 1,
    "instagibbs": 2,
    "gribble": 4,
    "jonatack": 1,
    "jeremyrubin": 1,
    "cfields": 5,
    "sipa": 1
  },
  "start_time": "2020-03-26T19:00:08+00:00",
  "end_time": "2020-03-26T19:31:16+00:00",
  "active": false,
  "original_topic": "Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | This is the channel for developing Bitcoin Core. Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics https://gist.github.com/moneyball/071d608fdae217c2a6d7c35955881d8a",
  "current_topic": "macOS notarization (jonasschnelli)",
  "messages": [
    {
      "id": "22c7e5b589604732890f24051daa4179",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "#startmeeting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:00:08+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b9d7cca496724382a57c54becfc40bd7",
      "sender": "lightningbot",
      "payload": "Meeting started Thu Mar 26 19:00:08 2020 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:00:08+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "508dd6175c744f1f93dc892fd6a2e928",
      "sender": "lightningbot",
      "payload": "Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:00:08+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "91f99c9d38f543caa36306eea535e9d9",
      "sender": "jnewbery",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:00:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8684ebaa0a6b4fa5b0e9cea27a51f448",
      "sender": "emilengler",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:00:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "39fd1618377b402d92f122f473ba2490",
      "sender": "sipsorcery",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:00:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "59b38bb9034c478997eb1f16d223595f",
      "sender": "promag",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:00:19+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c0a500cd31364a14a2dff7a3ea4c07ff",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:00:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a6a44fe22fe2436e92547d601dac0192",
      "sender": "kanzure",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:00:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7609c3cca73f486d9709253ee7a884b4",
      "sender": "hebasto",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:00:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f61658209c0b472fb1a98f8f3d2e4c14",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "#bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral ariard digi_james amiti fjahr",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:00:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bae67052b4144fc297fcd4b4bd49dce8",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "jeremyrubin lightlike emilengler jonatack hebasto jb55",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:00:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "288a0e80590242baaaa56b31ab1c2918",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "ih",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:00:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "46bb65e8c5da4d4695b5e3ee211a05e6",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:00:41+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2986e4be081b4f08be04e55dc4b0ea1a",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:00:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4139806ce15f40dab1993c3d2489d99d",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "wumpus: 3-15 says \" (bug fixes only until release)\"",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:00:50+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dd40bd42079d44eb8eaa055f349918f4",
      "sender": "amiti",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:01:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "29b66824be804ce0b70d6f75aeab8d81",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "luke-jr, sorry link?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:01:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "845adc1a8d5f4a19b5a85df4fb29234c",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17432",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:01:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d1af911d88f1459aa287a8de9558bf0a",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "I'm okay with merging that one before 0.20.0 anyhow",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:01:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "746963a55e0e42cc983e47efc2eb3b71",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "shrugs",
      "action": true,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:01:38+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2796c00b226148fb8ef8b8e521c50e3b",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "one suggested meeting topic for today: macOS notarization decision (jonasschnelli)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:02:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "76da10f8dbf94cceadcb84c0953b6b62",
      "sender": "promag",
      "payload": "#18160 too? X)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:02:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c3fb0848c55e49468dd4530c75860318",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18160 | gui: Avoid Wallet::GetBalance in WalletModel::pollBalanceChanged by promag \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #18160 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:02:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e05471f5814b4b7089b2342dc9f3b2cc",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "#topic High priority for review",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:03:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6d23317f97e44087983a75b6baedf8ab",
      "sender": "jonatack",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:03:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c5c581cd194a47c78ba44512cc724fb4",
      "sender": "jeremyrubin",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:03:41+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c794fce80df547c695d50afb605c4857",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "promag: added 0.20 milestone",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:03:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ac83b903dc584ab19f58d354f43d862e",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8   8 blockers, 2 bugfixes, 6 chasing concept ACK",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:04:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dd20979d0c8b495fa4245fada1ff3068",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "alternatively, everything on the 0.20.0 milestone: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestones/0.20.0  (includes issues and PRs)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:05:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9b72d04d4d07441bb7d6e6fdc7167bca",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "maybe #18000 for chasing concept ACK? :)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:05:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "66c5c968f1364c578f2bafbdbe3ca940",
      "sender": "promag",
      "payload": "wumpus: ty, if Luke is ok with it ofc",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:05:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8657797379104ed3b3169c558d1e96e1",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18000 | Index for UTXO Set Statistics by fjahr \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #18000 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:05:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f941ed23fad04515955758519b0a47aa",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "promag: ?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:06:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7df21ccb14d74d1db567f3f3650206d3",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "fjahr: added",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:07:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d683686c96904b65839ec66f6db2dcda",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "wumpus: ty",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:07:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4538f91b0e9044e99c27a95740d2382a",
      "sender": "promag",
      "payload": "luke-jr: because of bugfix only policy",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:08:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ddc85302365446a1897bae597265b99c",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "I think #17428 is too much  of a feature to still go in 0.20",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:08:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b2d8e49eef3f46f79d9e49a9e4fac5c2",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17428 | p2p: Try to preserve outbound block-relay-only connections during restart by hebasto \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #17428 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:08:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7a5087916cc24e3782b8fd5a76bbc202",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "promag: IMO it matters a lot less before rc1",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:09:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5fd7563429584949bdd4f8497c75e7e2",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "but people may disagree on that",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:09:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3c82120e6fd849d291194697789e4149",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "anyone with an opinion whether preserve outbound should be in 0.20?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:10:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e588f9eb8eac482a9f9ed230c7ac04ea",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "I haven't looked at it since it had that security issue; will look again after meeting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:11:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "99e59f3aac6d4bda95ac28201ed6c825",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "feature; missed the deadline. No need to rush it into 0.20?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:11:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5d1127d4df1648d990d433e9e7508e8a",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "ok if not, I'm moving it to the 0.21",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:11:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "35451d6200f14442a8c3361a8dedb89d",
      "sender": "hebasto",
      "payload": "agree",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:11:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "29367e9878b54231bba4d6a842bae283",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "it's already in 0.19 so it's not a regression of any sort at least(IIRC)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:12:54+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "282083068493471fb31c5c9e97eb6878",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "right, it would have been nice to have, but agree it's not a good idea to rush it in",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:13:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4c2af87d6e014b38bb2f436114d2766e",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "it could be considered for backporting to 0.20.1 when it lands I guess",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:13:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4c84967524a046f98a03a0c92c239bae",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "#topic macOS notarization (jonasschnelli)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:14:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e27da687c291431792402ae82cf9fae8",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "#18187",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:14:54+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "181ea5decb314d4c9c0fca99ddc9988d",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18187 | Add macOS notarization (including stapling) by jonasschnelli \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #18187 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:14:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b11abc0476be4a9eb73ac3df54de88de",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "The problem is, when we do notarize the macOS versions, it creates a tcp check connection with apples servers",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:15:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2dd007166bfd4ceea71f4cd8054d6c79",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Which is kinda a no-go IMO",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:15:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c1eda10f7c80471d9d2e054eb539c33a",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "So the question is, do we want to help newby users by not needing to right-click-open the app, but reduce pricavy, ... or focus on higher provacy",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:15:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0cad356d697946599295fbc28035d18c",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "I personally think preserving privacy has the higher focus right now",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:16:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a155ad3b66614fc29deb9d96b25785e7",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "See this comment: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18187#issuecomment-592453829",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:16:40+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "df80617fcabe4544acd5fd9f9a44d051",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "so it won't do the TCP check for notarization if it's not notarized?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:16:42+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a7b96611bdb84b1087e9d148dec58381",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Yes. It won't",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:16:54+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3ceb795c8e544bb898906329e2df3f46",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "(though you either have to right-click open the app or disable the security feature)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:17:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "46a4400251d94497aa677fc3ee4f085a",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "I think I'd slightly prefer to err on the side of privacy then",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:17:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "47800575e2db4b598af84a1a6926b6da",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "I think it make sense to \"deposit\" the possibility to notarize until apple enforces it or users really demand it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:18:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "90b75bd7b6e14f08a84b1e90cb44517e",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I thought the notarization could be stapled which would prevent the phone home",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:18:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "791e28b48f9740d89bf8c257a337f69c",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "I agree with wumpus",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:18:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "812870e1bea0436f9ac86c5ec9d73e90",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "achow101: it still does",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:18:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "30e85abbe45745bcb9eb004a1c2805d6",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "I tested it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:18:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7a25740a9ef345cebd948e0c6e46dfa3",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "achow101: apparently it still checks for revocations",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:18:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c0b49a1b7ff64a0384a498a1676cb0a1",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "that's a shame",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:18:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fa4dc8a2c7f04bfcb1073851a904d06b",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "achow101: With stapling, you can use it offline... but if you online, it still checks the validity",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:19:09+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e9c74fdd524741acb5a060d5fd5b86b4",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "which isn't entirely unreasonable, but IMO should go over Tor if forced; but good luck convincing Apple",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:19:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "07cc96dfe6c3427899997b9be722faf2",
      "sender": "hebasto",
      "payload": "could we maintain both versions?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:19:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4568ddc1ecec49cb86d8ed61cdd6f3cf",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "hmm",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:20:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "eca90088a9c34423866b87f88ae200a2",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "Checking for revocations implies that it could be revoked by someone other than us. IMO that's reason enough.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:20:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d6ec610d07c143d6a16477aeff816a2c",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "We could... as long as the hashes are different...",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:20:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3399825909874f3d81d22b6f1650f0b6",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "but probably not worth it and will lead to more confusion",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:20:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4ef6e9800a06482bbaf901350fca1473",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "is there a benefit to having the signed-but-not-notarised variant at all?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:20:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2192f083b4f74a93bdf2d0559f325865",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "maintaining two versions sounds overkill to me",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:20:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6d163cd1ebfb454599c84464da6e24eb",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "it's not worth it for such a small thing",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:20:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "91672b4e2742401c866cbe7b8346e0cd",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "ie, can we just do unsigned and signed+notarised?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:20:38+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "10a72c6193c74cb0a2b4fffbba025d52",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "the \"right-click-open\" approach could be better communicated (release notes, or even in the DMG)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:20:40+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3ae2b0bd4cf64227b50cca2c831402be",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "wumpus: we already have two versions really",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:20:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "893ab5d12e8c4576a2ccc41f0d8c5f84",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: it was in at least one rel notes, maybe restore that",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:21:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4fe1a1b4618e4f1b9900071408465de9",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "in general having mulitple choices for download confuses users",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:21:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8c14d3051f2246b5872ef5356a6fd158",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Best would be a note in the dmg.. but yeah. meh.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:21:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a31bbe2e6aef4afea6f2f5ea3943c25c",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "website could say right click thing too",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:21:36+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "620f47b3060b48d4aa35baed09aff3da",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "agreed",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:21:41+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "17d00ce3ac05467d8ba689698706342a",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "mentioning it makes sense",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:21:54+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d49b05fbb9a544f39294490501c9bf00",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "ooh, how about having hte DMG background image say it?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:21:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "27072852266e49d8ac52ec8e6ccf18ef",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "yes. That.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:22:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9c5039c1610641eaa9c468715f1c4a6e",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "if they right-click open in the DMG, does that fix single-click later after they copy?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:22:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bdb96b3334734f598b2d06b73ea18e18",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Copy to /Application, 1. time start with \"right click open\"... (something like that in the .tiff)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:22:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a3247948f8174adead74782490e929f1",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "luke-jr: very unlikely",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:22:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "35d9e0f137584e7e96bec4789637aaa0",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: does the signature do anything for us anymore?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:23:08+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cc321efac19146a1adcf4a7521d833e9",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "don't you have to have the dmg already open to see the background? Implying that you've already right-clicked?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:23:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bf60e47ed62a4614a8334717e16d22ac",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "heh.. yeah. and that.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:23:38+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "037ce169e04f447685b92b1ccb72baa1",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "do they rightclick the DMG, or rightclick the app?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:23:40+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "efa350bc9fe84cdf965776dcf63f31f1",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "luke-jr: what do you mean with \"signature do anything?\"?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:23:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f3db40cf11214c8f8cb843047b4e96c0",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: the point of the signature was to avoid a right-click, wasn't it?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:24:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5b1c64b12d4b4e4994273097fa2d6c4e",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "if we need to right-click anyway, why sign?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:24:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7fe649b1eeb74293a5240580e1593986",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "luke-jr: I'm now wondering the same.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:24:40+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8b66ad5601f34b7ea0f821b5bec148c0",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "(Apple signature, I mean, obviously we still do a real gitian sig)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:24:40+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0b9495f3e8aa41d1ba664af7d47cf868",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "Does the right-click trick still work for completely unsigned apps?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:25:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "de3a6db723914ea782fb6e4673d9213f",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Well... the apples idea is _not_ that signatures avoid right click. But yeah. With enforce notarization (10.14) we are back at the same problem.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:25:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7a41b97a97804e719d2882069f9faf42",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "I'm not sure, they might start enforcing signing before enforcing notarization",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:25:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5e5ae130658b4b9991db5a7b1f5abdd6",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "cfields: good questions.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:25:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3380d25295ef42249c6f8e67c673ac53",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "We should assume they'll eventually enforce everything they introduce.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:25:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f37d504e116c4da7ac6c59d93ecb1675",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "All that stuff would be acceptable. If there would not be a mandatory call-apple connection that reveale the application-hash to apple.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:26:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "41d7b8aa8a20442185db162ab0e5bc0d",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "cfields: AFAIK they still don't enforce signing strictly",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:26:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0e60d223087848eab6f945b161aec48f",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "why *would* we stop signing? we already hve the flow for that anyhow",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:26:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9435017554074795891b0c9f0b0ec1e0",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "wumpus: it's an extra step; and it means we could stay with just 2 variants AND notarise",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:26:42+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f22114a6f9c54b7696e49fbc34a9a02d",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "I don't see any pressing reason to change that",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:26:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "57ac51936ea8422cae9d2ff06a881abd",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "indeed",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:26:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "15db6769aaca4b5d8c8cb13e4757dce7",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Lets just see how Apple continues with notarization and have the stuff ready for a sitaution where we need it.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:27:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "65da8cc6443a4fa9b8854bb8c008f1a8",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Maybe add a right-click info to the dmg/background",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:27:27+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "076ac9a3c5404e1cb60c86ee02c05021",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "also, by stopping signing, maybe it will make it politically harder for Apple to enforce the notary? *shrug*",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:27:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "87a3d198daaf41baba2545ec06b4c423",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "yes, let's be prepared for when it is stricty enforced, that's likely to happen a tsome point",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:27:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "33ad6fb92af9433cbb2299ec433d5367",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "could be argued either way I suppose",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:27:55+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d1800e8e5ce3476aab652e28d2ebf0fe",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "but if there's no benefit to the signing, it's trivial to just not do it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:28:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b2973fa5161b4eaf923c105aa9146020",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "I'd prefer to not change it last minute for 0.20 at least, could reconsider for 0.21 if it makes sense, but dunno",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:28:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "847954fb02fd4849a3bfabd3243a8708",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Signing has benefits,... at almost no costs. Lets keep it.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:29:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "02893b6dabee495bb46977929437ffe2",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: what benefit?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:29:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c081c75b3dbc46e1b661d4f636251117",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: agreed",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:29:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "73b139861a3e44578fd5df33a7013e8d",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "any other topics?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:29:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "441de467658b49e78e12c370c57c2568",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "luke-jr: users not verifiny gitian signaturs have a tiny proof of authicity.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:29:38+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8fef71cdc04740fdbe237829b963016a",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "/topic",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:29:52+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7fb61543c7224b21a531d44b1defd239",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: if they don't verify gitian, why would they verify this?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:30:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "168c62880b714502a0bd66c5f54572bf",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "hi!",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:30:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e8f25b0019d049c681e81dfd7da07bee",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "luke-jr: the os does",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:30:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7501bf1ff975437492d339da7a007688",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "sipa: you're just in time for the end of the meeting it seems :)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:30:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e244c28d1ccb4c11b886dfe3ad849d0b",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: when?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:30:38+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "42fc087b743441c0abe1412b313d5776",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "(unless someone has a topic)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:30:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cd035e2b4f4f4e7b8b35f971778ecb4c",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "#endmeeting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-26T19:31:16+00:00"
    }
  ],
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      "event_type": "START_MEETING",
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