{
  "founder": "wumpus",
  "channel": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "network": "freenode",
  "id": "81025c21dbf04ea8a2ef82a9ad87f3db",
  "name": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "chair": "wumpus",
  "chairs": [
    "wumpus"
  ],
  "nicks": {
    "wumpus": 53,
    "lightningbot": 2,
    "MarcoFalke": 27,
    "sipsorcery": 1,
    "kanzure": 3,
    "jkczyz": 1,
    "emilengler": 2,
    "fjahr": 1,
    "promag": 1,
    "jonatack": 3,
    "provoostenator": 2,
    "hebasto": 3,
    "achow101": 20,
    "amiti": 1,
    "luke-jr": 75,
    "sipa": 30,
    "gribble": 5,
    "cncr04s": 2,
    "dongcarl": 3,
    "fanquake": 1,
    "ryanofsky": 2
  },
  "start_time": "2020-03-12T19:00:11+00:00",
  "end_time": "2020-03-12T19:59:37+00:00",
  "active": false,
  "original_topic": "Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | This is the channel for developing Bitcoin Core. Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics https://gist.github.com/moneyball/071d608fdae217c2a6d7c35955881d8a",
  "current_topic": "PPA URI (luke-jr)",
  "messages": [
    {
      "id": "73c9b10b6094452182a73dda47032cc2",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "#startmeeting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:00:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "eefd4631583f4f13b87e5803d475a85c",
      "sender": "lightningbot",
      "payload": "Meeting started Thu Mar 12 19:00:11 2020 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:00:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d2efd45768634064851efca97097bc3f",
      "sender": "lightningbot",
      "payload": "Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:00:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "99dce13bdab2498b954c9878f4491883",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:00:19+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "481ea55a1acd44d893b58111a008b4eb",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "#bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral ariard digi_james amiti fjahr",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:00:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "90fe2cc1f99247469301ac29cb7ea78b",
      "sender": "sipsorcery",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:00:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a6942b57534247529bb8fe00167d7247",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "jeremyrubin lightlike emilengler jonatack hebasto jb55",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:00:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ff4b779c431845c2a726f88bdf0bd188",
      "sender": "kanzure",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:00:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "59e0bb309c4d4d9a8470577c17936446",
      "sender": "jkczyz",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:00:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "de680c33b76d4de7b90a5e1bc94edd90",
      "sender": "emilengler",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:00:27+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9cc6198bc1534981adc327bcf19a3f98",
      "sender": "fjahr",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:00:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fdcc337be1de4629ab4d7894c4be89b6",
      "sender": "promag",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:00:36+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c1ab19ffbc9b4467976a0a95ac2c50f7",
      "sender": "jonatack",
      "payload": "hello",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:00:38+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "adca75a994904aed8cd9bb297c13c47d",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "hi (though distracted)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:00:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2a918d95bae04901a6995e95a85b5a60",
      "sender": "hebasto",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:00:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9587b980bb814c2383c4778c84b4f104",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "one proposed topic in http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt : PPA URI (luke-jr) if he's here",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:01:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c4eeacf5624c4db3b026081f51436a17",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:01:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "062aae2593f1490d8e853d220f95a000",
      "sender": "amiti",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:01:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "25b44b74f06e46e999ebabd179412bac",
      "sender": "kanzure",
      "payload": "other topic: status of coredev.tech survey about meeting options, or any results, or when to expect as much",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:01:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6f6f4ef3f4864ec093853cb6ffa4f14c",
      "sender": "kanzure",
      "payload": "(i don't have that information)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:01:42+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1a1dab8a2452456188c1c9897081e3ed",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "here for now",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:01:50+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f513ea2590944425b744d82e7cd9adee",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "good thing that it was decided to cancel coredev last week, because people from Europe aren't even allowed to travel to the US anymore",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:01:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "74b08fa36cd94037998faeada6912062",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "#topic Features for 0.20",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:02:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "40155e208b394dab97a925e92b90b69e",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:02:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "84e5c8eaf881464a938e35eb0aba9470",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "as you might know, the feature freeze for 0.20 is in three days (the 15th)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:02:50+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7339d89fb1594f9d9b3e3f248daaa909",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "is there anything in progress, that only needs a bit of review to go, could still be ready before then?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:03:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "10be5f3f65504862b21eb71e1f5b3400",
      "sender": "hebasto",
      "payload": "#16224 ?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:03:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a98f2fa05b6949e19a5fa1a567efee2c",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16224 | gui: Bilingual GUI error messages by hebasto \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #16224 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:03:58+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "99fb9d0c068546c2a2c4970588de35ff",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "hebasto: yes, good one",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:04:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0858a05962224329a0496a6c2eac27e1",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "#17509?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:04:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "402b0202f83a4d1eb64feb23b9b0d4e4",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17509 | gui: save and load PSBT by Sjors \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #17509 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:04:41+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d2aa4752648c4f8cbe6e29c23918de04",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I'd like #18204 too",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:05:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "687443e1291348979390bab738641ac0",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18204 | descriptors: improve descriptor cache and cache xpubs by achow101 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #18204 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:05:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cff4a64eef0f45dba15a8a7cddd074a8",
      "sender": "emilengler",
      "payload": "hebasto: Will review this PR tomorrow",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:05:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d1c127a8a8e34151a92760d51ef4c628",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "^ I'll try to conserve ACKs but can quickly address feedback if needed on",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:05:16+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dc76a477b2354b479d3ffcd6a576ce12",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "that would be really nice to have",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:05:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "40ddcca50de245beb4687ff3b201696d",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "achow101: is 18204 a feature or performance improvement?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:07:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9ef19846408a4acb9d17d88007e82178",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "(I mean if the latter it could potentially go in after the feature freeze)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:07:52+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "61b43849ff1d4bdd9dc098d94e2440a6",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "it can go in after the feature freeze I guess",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:08:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "aad40e8e373344edba79c38d38aef851",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "it's really a performance improvement",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:08:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "88971c41fad34097a44175ada16f4e3d",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "i think it's a weak performance improvement, but also a necessity for descriptor wallets",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:08:41+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "907d4ebe388042d6a75da8da7e041e79",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "but it has quite some ACKs, I see, so might not need to wait that long anyhow",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:08:51+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4309bc250c074447bbc85465fd055649",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I just don't want it to get stuck for another few months with 2 acks",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:09:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8ee88c154deb4b99b3167ad9540f3151",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "it's always ok to remind me if something is almost ready for merge btw no need to wait until the meeting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:09:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ccf800b6987c4e3680045b6b1388fe8b",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "#topic PPA URI (luke-jr)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:10:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "51306859f986437cb696a04cc89e0b1d",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "pinging BlueMatt",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:11:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "18c1c01ca8544924b5250084cf86d0e5",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "ah, he's going through airport security",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:11:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b05e7c60c093486aab27b1a5d45c0560",
      "sender": "cncr04s",
      "payload": "remove that 3 second wait on the send button",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:11:54+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4fefc1d2edf84e1aa4c3ffb15db3c9be",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:12:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b572e9e3cea6483fb4537cfaffc7a64d",
      "sender": "cncr04s",
      "payload": "or at least add an option",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:12:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b49d73cbf12a43a49eb49ab16be0bfbc",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "I'll let BlueMatt and luke-jr fight this out",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:12:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "58cbffba8f104121860310c292502a84",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "I think the only question was whether to use deterministic builds or not",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:12:16+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c78304b52c2447538ffaa3ac57095b60",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "I can't see an argument for non-deterministic builds",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:12:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bf3d855379bb4544b9e761546d761238",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "and whether we want to support PPAs at all",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:12:36+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "873e4f46fd0f4f509aa6966cc30cb08e",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "I think that's the main question",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:12:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "eba1762fa4ea4835bc3efec7fe0111e3",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "there's various documentation written by other people that refer to the ppa",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:12:55+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ed87d524206c43db86f716afde20b632",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "if we can make the PPA deterministic (or even identical to the release builds), that would be ideal",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:13:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6db4a05ddb6243ccb3fe641210f1e9db",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "yes, definitely",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:13:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "782cdaac3e2543f0883c503b03a127b5",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "I am maintaining the PPA",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:13:54+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8735925b6ac3497598c1afd0be1794ea",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "<BlueMatt> Note that ppa has two series\u00c3\u00a2\u00c2\u0080\u00c2\u0099 of issues that releases did not: GUI issues that persisted for two releases and weren\u00c3\u00a2\u00c2\u0080\u00c2\u0099t ever solved and the 32-bit test failures.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:14:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d46f30136b3b4b5ca21f1e60511e209f",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "I don't really know why anyone else needs to be involved in this fact..",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:14:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8ffc5ca0d89641838d62a6f4b5dc24df",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "<BlueMatt> The second one especially scares me",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:14:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2fd48e75b3404e64b0ef9786d9622192",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "what do you need from us then?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:14:36+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "df4b1d174e1c4af985c28f0e77444f3f",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "the only question in my mind is whether it should remain at 'bitcoin' as some have suggested, or move to my own launchpad",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:14:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6a8ad613def54e11a6ca12caea5ae84d",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "That was the gcc compiler bug",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:14:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d345311af33e4f599fc6c6325e121ebe",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "<BlueMatt> But if people want it, it should be maintained as a part of the packaging repo",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:14:54+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6ab20b55dc9d4eab90a26cbaec9c48c1",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I think it should remain at 'bitcoin' as that's where a bunch of docs that mention the ppa point to",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:15:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c55ad120862144ff9c1d8805a0eb8cfb",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "BlueMatt seems to not only want to stop maitnaining it, but also suppress others from doing so. hence the meeting topic",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:15:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7b36d9f76ed548d7a5705c3267a46a19",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "I think we shouldn't offer software that is impossible to audit",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:16:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b2b3b84bfc37406b9b5d29d9140244d4",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "determinisitic builds in the ppa are fine, though",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:16:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "50b1b7d6e97e4790be904c39baca59b1",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "well the \"bitcoin\" PPA is his so as for maintining that that's his decision, if you maintain youre own somewhere else that's fine, but we likely won't link to it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:16:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "95e28d98cea045e086c9be405bd84774",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "(we never even linked from the repo to his ppa either afaik)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:16:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dfb8542c17bc4db8b52e52767605498b",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "bitcoincore",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:17:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5343826450494688acd8da726016d787",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "wumpus: the ppa has been linked to before from both our repo and bitcoincore.org. those were removed, but it has been \"official\"",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:17:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "10dd907b2f0c45ecaac442edd728a135",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "bitcoincore.org or bitcoin.org linked to it as a way of installing",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:17:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1edfc35c7ad24ed99e4a5c10177679a6",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "Yes, I remember removing that link",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:18:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "87dbecf308b2494fb5761e8140474012",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "achow101: I think the ppa was only linked as a means to install bdb4",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:18:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e8f333fda8424185a37c83aa1931a87f",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "oh okay",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:18:16+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f8a4d35a09b54bd2a97525f20d4c1f27",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "I think there is no one objecting a ppa that wraps our normal release builds",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:19:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "90d8c5b406fd40f7834bdcca257177f4",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "like the snap does, right?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:19:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2201d35820a84548a1036f6ba4688316",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "jup",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:20:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cf122fce64bf485289ac69602f355eeb",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "But some people don't like the snap, because it doesn't install it in the \"classic\" location etc",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:20:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d8ce6db1d50844f9aa28c54ec457adcc",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "\u00c3\u00a2\u00c2\u0080\u00c2\u00a6 how much of that made it :/",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:20:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "110b0ca82520454982802955b5df119e",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "Canonical is ultimately responsible for the PPA builds",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:21:09+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e77cc749fd0e4b1b841f0945b4a71d0c",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "it's also not what you'd get by building from source and knstalling",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:21:09+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ebe6611a97bd49a687c097d218a75b75",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "the gitian builds are terrible; they have a purpose, sure, but they're not even close to what users ideally would use",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:21:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5112facb30a740e7956954100416abd3",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "luke-jr: your last message was \"BlueMatt seems to not only want to stop maitnaining it, but also suppress others from doing so. hence the meeting topic\"",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:21:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f88122543f044170ada7e1ee5aecd18a",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "the PPA is built by the OS vendor, and produces binaries specifically for the OS",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:21:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "73b95c43e52a4a32b3572b358de2a50f",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "wumpus: after that was [19:16:12] <luke-jr> so I guess the questions are 1) do we want to keep the PPA at the old URI, and 2) can we satisfy BlueMatt to allow that?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:21:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "777e1349a63147eb84a3931c817f7e35",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "make the gitian builds less horrible then",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:21:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "73e29b10aabb4cf1bd68348794fe589d",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "wumpus: that's incompatible with the goal of them",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:21:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "884d9f4eb2e24105be0448673fc9b9d6",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "it's what everything is based on and the only auditable one",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:22:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "51a5b599a9514cb194f8bf64acf7ce1b",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "wumpus: gitian builds are intended to run anywhere, but that's incompatible with being targetted to a specific distro",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:22:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7d2931b37c5c40369ef695449e0a3fa8",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "luke-jr: how so? something that runs anywhere should also run on a specific distro",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:22:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ef5a673dd7404260aa3ba6287a48eb18",
      "sender": "dongcarl",
      "payload": "is so confused",
      "action": true,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:22:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "81746780db80436cb0c9ccc1a90edcd6",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "agree with achow101",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:22:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c7697bd15c96453d9409f44378a97693",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "luke-jr: just because of UI theming etc?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:22:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1a693e2344e44b6481b5d8ceea0c9a58",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "achow101: ideally, binaries should dynamic link to system libraries for ~everything",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:22:58+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "668ac71da6bc4e5ebf60fcda7f005da7",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "things like GUI costomization/integration I guess",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:23:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1755dda30c064f61b9dadaa083942b21",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "sipa: that's a symptom",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:23:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "deec958ab09f44f6861834b646b10afd",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "not that that ever worked well for the PPA",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:23:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "71ed5e03bacb4a259e42946ea864645a",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "we had more UI issues with the PPA than ever with the gitian builds",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:23:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2536dd19369d4d119fde6c0468e70ad7",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "seema like a small price to pay for auditabke builds",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:23:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6be1bae59df048969a22a834b416d6ea",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "luke-jr: but we don't necessarily support the specific system libraries that may be installed",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:23:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "84e3e403ac894d8ca5da825fb0f96bea",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "sorry, car tyoing",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:23:50+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8e3622b15565414585f3547915bfb5c8",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "nobody is suggesting removing the gitian option",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:23:50+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "05c331b3f2264b1b916fc361fa51bb6c",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "there may be version differences, etc.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:23:51+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "745f55a66e904a5aa5a38cac603dee01",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "achow101: we do",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:23:58+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f1753af9392d42638c1b789c50df4ddd",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "although at least the crazyness with ubuntu unity is gone now",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:24:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "39eafbaa8bb54cca8e2d081aef23f5c2",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "achow101: the preferred install is from source",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:24:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ac1628c309a94238a226bd17741545c1",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "achow101: (and PPAs don't support distros without the required versions)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:24:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "71b946d5b59045389b35f8d9507b3339",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "logical order of preference, for an Ubuntu user, is build-from-source > PPA > gitian",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:25:14+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bef80817c6564c07af28ae03d61cf9a9",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "but I agree with sipa, deterministic builds are worth a little bit of GUI integration annoyance",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:25:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cf6357beca9d4fddb197f728fc8f373a",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "If someone really wants to use the system libs, why can't they build from source?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:25:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8f29d0017ba84284bb027b776a3d7f0b",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "it might be nice if we could deterministically make the PPA debs, but Launchpad doesn't support that",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:25:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5b3b432023b44311a202dd4b35fc8d29",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "if a distro version lacks the requisite system libs, gitian would still work there, no? I think that's a good thing",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:25:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "48181257682242f6b9bc17aecafdbead",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "MarcoFalke: many users don't know how, or don't want to spend the time",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:25:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "59c5edf6b2e748eaacaaedbbdd6cf737",
      "sender": "dongcarl",
      "payload": "Very naive thought: is it possible to have 2 PPAs, 1 for gitian built binaries, 1 for specifically OS-integrated?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:25:50+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7a30c1cb6b91469d89c3d787f3f674c9",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "achow101: absolutely",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:25:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a77ed2e5a5b24b6e8d08d7f991858004",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "dongcarl: I'd support that",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:26:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7c8c20d68e7b4105a961fa52ac47b9f5",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "achow101: PPAs are not a replacement for gitian, they are an alternative for certain users",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:26:08+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7815a8db90d0432b92f0a285c942d451",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "dongcarl: should be",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:26:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b4e825e370344b328619013dc5975bb1",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "bitcoin/bitcoin would be deterministic and luke-jr/bitcoin is built with system libs",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:26:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6fd89d3fd28547c0a76bfcbb1521754a",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "dongcarl: sounds like a good idea, even",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:26:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1e4e66997e2443fa9faea0cb9d657830",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "MarcoFalke: that seems backward",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:26:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9e3aa65b0ed548c4b2cb000e6bc2c083",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "bitcoin/bitcoin has always been system libs",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:26:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8cba7d1984684b7daab075f828c44941",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "luke-jr: you seem to be the only one arguing for system libs",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:27:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d680b56141e04dc5b93e9334be5e1f44",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "sipa: so?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:27:14+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7d50aa5f06354e888315ca82e3337bfd",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I think anything \"official\" should only be determinisitic",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:27:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ddcc9aaae62340ebbacec1bb3aeb1cdf",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "agree",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:27:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e7c5448cf2434d1e955eab345dbe9b03",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "agree",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:27:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "696761ea1bd04fdcbd3dc5d460e9e7f8",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "achow101: +1",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:27:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d28ed6c58ce641a6a9621747deeeb9d2",
      "sender": "dongcarl",
      "payload": "agree",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:28:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b1fb25154e504d288677268dfe4237ae",
      "sender": "fanquake",
      "payload": "+1",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:28:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "27515b90c29647bbbd100d597069f461",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "achow101: why?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:28:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "83a7b6d1da964f009e58523e5668e60b",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "Distro-built is equivalent security",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:28:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "710e83e45be04381b44943559e3bc722",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "if your distro is compromised, a gitian build won't help you",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:28:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9d1593c6fed341c583b2450d4d7e0f82",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "because it's the only one we can vouch for based on the sha256 hashes",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:28:36+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "705cc5c1714a4993bed6668a16590f8d",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "luke-jr: We are talking about the ppa infrastructure being compromised, not the normal package build infra",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:28:58+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "459f27b4212945e9a4c6363a6e6ab114",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "MarcoFalke: isn't it the same?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:29:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e4126e462d6e461b8ee0ccd6e0d90e95",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "I hope for Ubuntu that they are different, at least different datacenters",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:29:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "63f2390c861d44c692be8b581b44ee63",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "MarcoFalke: i doubt that",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:29:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2df7488328884e6bae8397575388e28f",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "so I think we've pretty much reached an agreement here, any other topics?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:29:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "590b88840bb24824b10df705cfebcb11",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "anyway, how about adding a disclaimer to the effect of \"These are built by Canonical, not the Bitcoin Core project\"?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:29:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8c54cd06f3594279a5be880e7a5ba4f5",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "luke-jr: how is it the same?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:29:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3de7afaa9e394512888f0057c4d9752a",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "achow101: PPAs are built by Canonical",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:30:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2d1f5b11521b43269c9c1e5edc49e8bc",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "luke-jr: and maintained by the PPA maintainer",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:30:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "beb205e8210d4b00a92e4ea903be5fda",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "yes but their build infrastructure runs arbitrary builds of arbitrary software, in the PPA case, so it's not that far fetched it could be compromised",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:30:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "feb4ec39aaa74c2f9513d05f8fbb6cdc",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "sipa: just like the snaps are..",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:30:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c2fec9a91cfe4386888ec3c95ba3c560",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "luke-jr: The snap you can check against the signed hash",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:30:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "85db1d791cb740918709d863feab7ea6",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "MarcoFalke: our website says you can't last I checked",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:31:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c3e10cfa41844334a2cc0c811ec66779",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "right, the snap packages the gitian-built executables so you can verify them in the same way",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:31:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7b293c7169d34a63bf19859fca7dca8e",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "luke-jr: I coldn't find a cross-platform way to do it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:31:27+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "de5719315c2d4ece89a60363091e0c6d",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "But on my machine it works last time I tried",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:31:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "43c5da33ff514cfc9474db973c50df53",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "this would also be true for a PPA that packages the gitian-built binaries",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:31:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9bddf5aaaf6849a5bea9ed8af53391bf",
      "sender": "jonatack",
      "payload": "wumpus: I am not sure the blockers are a topic this week, but FWIW it looks like #16426 is currently replaced by #17954",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:32:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "813e46b573e14000a8a786a89e3b2014",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16426 | Reverse cs_main, cs_wallet lock order and reduce cs_main locking by ariard \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #16426 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:32:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "926a0e3a60154bdc9e2c916a34bac4dc",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17954 | wallet: Remove calls to Chain::Lock methods by ryanofsky \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #17954 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:32:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b78c1184509d4d73ad0461304cba0d3e",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "MarcoFalke: it verifies the entire snap, not just the chosen binaries installed?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:32:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "96dd898b33674b109f401dd25af67a17",
      "sender": "jonatack",
      "payload": "which, by mutual agreement of the PR authors, apparently should be merged in first",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:32:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c5a0b35a264a438fa79e6a9da9043311",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "jonatack: I've forgone blockers because of focusing on things that need to go in before the feature freeze which is imminent, but sure I'll swap them",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:33:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ab248f0f76774262b30be544ac2660f0",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "I'm not entirely sure what argument sipa is trying to make..",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:33:05+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ed6f4f6d81ce45cd818f0c8391eb95f0",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "luke-jr: Of course you'd still have to trust the snapd",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:33:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "52f5185018a543e1bc925fcd50eabe3d",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "there is no way I could as maintainer compromise the PPA without it being publicly visible",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:33:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "57ae0e4297d347d999e8f20a5677b104",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "but it's possible for canonical to compromise it invisibly",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:34:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2a09e5f37d80447d97cb65eab58acd06",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "achow101: absolutely.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:34:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9cc93c920b7540e8b155d08f5ab9ec58",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "just like they can compromise the OS",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:34:42+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "224a493a04564d518b3014aeeb5f3023",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "in which case gitian does no good to prevent it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:34:52+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "84d9952a2b0e459c9651d5493220981d",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "but at least users can verify that the ppa was not compromised with gitian",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:35:54+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a464fad8dbf84c3c8e76e2ad6ae7faba",
      "sender": "hebasto",
      "payload": "are any estimation of a ppa share among all users?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:36:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a70a79eb9c514c13a2991bb312c50e18",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "and IIRC, PPAs can still be used on ubuntu derivatives",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:36:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ba934781682441628a70b93524c55c98",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "and other distros which are not necessarily canonical",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:36:14+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8a58cb3757f140da9bc256b06a497108",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "hebasto: very few have noticed the URI changed",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:36:19+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ac8375bac70b494186e257f4283da700",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "luke-jr: it didn't cba ge",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:36:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "920f01cbcddd486f9c84eeadca7586be",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "it was discontinued",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:36:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4db82db2acea4bb394298b6720095b79",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "sipa: no, I am still maintaining it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:36:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6a3e2a42634c4b9fb290c18b9ad69e38",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "you have your own PPA",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:36:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8498a3ec8e644bad93f489728d1b8dab",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "hebasto: 2019-09, there were still around 8000 users of the PPA at bitcoin/bitcoin",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:37:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7d59b52f27a34a82972b279c595a5d66",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "so we already discussed a compromise acceptable with most people here (two PPAs), I'm not sure it makes sense to continue arguing this",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:37:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6c8b6c84d1804b51962bedc1cf54cc36",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "who are now stuck on 0.18.0 until they switch to the new PPA",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:37:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cbd5e4848906402ba8554c821386ee9e",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "wumpus: anyone can make a 2nd PPA, but I'm not sure there's a need with the snap doing the gitian binaries already",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:38:40+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "db5d7c27f19743849cfd30853e9a4bef",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "maybe we should, until we resolve this, push an update to the PPA that installs a binary that just prints \"this is not maintained, see page X\"",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:38:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1e23f9b505ae47da9581380b47006725",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "sipa: or at least deletes the binary",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:38:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "39e7ba210e874e4e9b1368311fb32211",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "right",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:39:02+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3f584fae4a44409a830a0af82157bd08",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "i agree there are probably people stuck at 0.18 by not noticing the ppa page that says it's not maintained",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:39:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a4d08b9b3e70435aa6625273b7c4ae14",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "maybe less invasive to patch 0.18.0 with a message, but.. not sure I like the idea of doing a known-vulnerable \"release\"",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:39:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c94e05e653ad423ba4c79a38aa7259cb",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "at least make sure it doesn't delete the wallet ...",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:39:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "db12c6cb83bd43ee9b523e76f86ae34a",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "wumpus: i don't think system installs can delete user files",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:39:55+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4dfdb73d618c47b181ce9b5eb3777d65",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "sipa: I think that was a risk wit hthe snap at some point",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:40:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f954fe9d6a0340cca8dfd2819940ec6b",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "I guess that's one potentially scary thing about Snaps",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:40:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d38cf17241fd45fc9e667bfbe63d5c3d",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "yeah",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:40:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bba2804f3f0a455989d0516ac4f83363",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "wumpus: i know nothing about snap",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:40:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d289d6c61e32418bad3ba642388f4de8",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "sipa: it's basically a chroot AIUI",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:40:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ff5f8c50c92440b3a2211ce911ad859d",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "but yes unintalling a deb shouldn't remove user files (or even system configuration files without --purge)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:40:58+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0739a277a9b54d2887a5269ab4a1f7ff",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "Snap creates a snapshot of your wallet on uninstall",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:41:16+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "791db1037a5747549564156208d6576b",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "MarcoFalke: scary",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:41:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4e0816a2df0d42dfb646c44b8b404e1d",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "I suppose that might be a reason to support a second gitian-binary PPA",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:41:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4bd2520dfed0421389f19b24fbe4dbd1",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "sipa: Less scary than deleting it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:41:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "96c937baa94a4240982a10adea0eb52c",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "fair",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:42:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ec47bf350dbe4a71a86b500c92cd89eb",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "back to the original topic though, bitcoin/bitcoin seems like a bad URI IMO",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:42:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6567d2dbb7a840859e2d9916f327657f",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "bumping it with a move message seems like a good solution",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:42:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5ba8a94aa641488b80bd37bd30e4a117",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "and that can refer to the two new PPAs with clarification of distinction",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:42:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "51d5563fae344621b6974e2a234c6898",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:42:36+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7f4dca6b67e54be9b3314faf07e4fe25",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "could be luke-jr/bitcoincore & luke-jr/bitcoincore-deterministic, or bitcoincore/bitcoincore-{system,deterministic} or something along those lines?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:43:19+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ac44008165864e1d83e21cc3848fe73e",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "(not promising I'll make the gitian binary PPA - just throwing out ideas for discussion)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:43:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "594c34d6cfcb4309ac7d01f69e1a12aa",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "advantage of the former is that it's obvious who maintains it; but the latter will work even if multiple people or maintainers change",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:44:02+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7f7286dd71694f0d9e7fa172dece5391",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I think we have to keep bitcoin/bitcoin just to keep existing docs working and not confusing existing users further",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:44:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1943cf9a0f67493c8d90aa4edb3784fe",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "downside of the latter is it implies the project is responsible for it, which seems undesirable",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:44:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ce7f163a28c94495a6382cb3809f5138",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "if there's two PPAs then docs have to be updated anyway",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:45:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ff371e6888d94b43896f04f590b20725",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "achow101: currently only BlueMatt has a monopoly on the 'bitcoin' name",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:45:09+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "39a65301dde940d2a2646c527d8e6810",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "WITH documentation on what the choice is and why",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:45:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e270608fba3a45e49e28c2e1e0eaaa75",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "even providing a notice-bump on the old PPA will require BlueMatt's cooperation",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:45:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ff317474f9bf41ffa4cefece27e62dbd",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "In launchpad it is possible to change the email address to something@bitcoincore.org, so that whoever has access to that can reset it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:47:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "181991f2883e4dcd83fff7dd6e6665c6",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "That is how I set up the snap",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:47:27+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "af1316486501492a87ac65f12656469b",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "MarcoFalke: I don't know how BlueMatt setup the Launchpad stuff - I suspect the account is his personal account, and ~bitcoin is just a team with only him",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:49:02+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a7c2af77ebd14046a917360d29404667",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "would be nice if we could come to some agreement here to present to BlueMatt.. maybe \"two new PPAs, and bump bitcoin/bitcoin with a notice\"?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:49:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "aca818b1037f4fd4975759bdcef105d2",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "actually, notice should mention the gitian builds and Snap too for completeness IMO",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:49:51+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6631effe1f274948bcdc840a8cb324dd",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "yes +1 with adding a notice to bitcoin/bitcoin at least, no matter if there's any new PPAs",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:51:14+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0cf405ca27f9408b945e8f1a0e599ac3",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "it would be IMO absurd to say that BlueMatt is allowed to maintain a PPA and I am not",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:52:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f25828669e17427fb9b6853da9c48ffc",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "(which is what would be implied by refusing to tell users of the new URI)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:52:55+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5f5791a5bcaf494baca61b5469df96d3",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "well we all think an 'official' PPA should be built from the gitian-built binaries, and you disagree with that, so that's not entirely unexpected",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:52:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6870ddcc901140378b3da177f85bbe3f",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "wumpus: it never has been",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:53:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0fa6b847e1734dab83d66a658d2ad83d",
      "sender": "ryanofsky",
      "payload": "does PPA require a single maintainer? with snaps we have a github packaging repository that gets normal review and a something@bitcoincore.org owner like marco mentioned",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:53:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "eab2143079804d52bd32b9538bcc6204",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "ryanofsky: the PPA stuff is in the same repo",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:53:40+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "de0dec472a7c401e9fc6ef86ddaa977e",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "ryanofsky: I have a PR open for the gitian YML that submits it to Canonical, but nobody seem to care to review it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:54:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6a8d37cc42714fa8a445fda5cd71612b",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "that's another point to simply package the gitain-built binaries; it doens't require as much maintenance or separate testing",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:54:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8467a75e61d24fe29a7eca6d40be79b9",
      "sender": "ryanofsky",
      "payload": "oh, well it seems kind of important to get that merged so we can have multiple maintainers",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:54:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "604fd64d37d54eb3a0e6b88e61258f9d",
      "sender": "MarcoFalke",
      "payload": "luke-jr: It seems to be pending on the further steps we take",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:54:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e79f234b794d4bc1baf4a0cb88eb058e",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "ryanofsky: I wasn't aware anyone else was interested ;)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:55:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e2ed8257474b405ebb025a23fc5004a9",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "MarcoFalke: ultimately, it's a question of whether someone is trying to dictate to users how they use Core, or let them make an informed decision",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:56:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2c365b2a302b4217b694670c66283062",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "it'd be one thing if nobody was willing to maintain the PPA at all; it's another to try to stop someone",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2020-03-12T19:57:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "24d15b47642145b9a8ea4be245b3f6f5",
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      "payload": "well you're maintaining it, we're definitely not able to stop you doing that",
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