{
  "founder": "meshcollider",
  "channel": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "network": "freenode",
  "id": "19836bf53b6c46349ed12f194f7d827e",
  "name": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "chair": "meshcollider",
  "chairs": [
    "meshcollider"
  ],
  "nicks": {
    "meshcollider": 25,
    "lightningbot": 2,
    "provoostenator": 9,
    "achow101": 18,
    "gribble": 7,
    "kanzure": 1,
    "sipa": 37,
    "instagibbs": 17,
    "bitcoin-git": 1
  },
  "start_time": "2019-10-11T19:00:10+00:00",
  "end_time": "2019-10-11T19:42:41+00:00",
  "active": false,
  "original_topic": "Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | This is the channel for developing Bitcoin Core. Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics https://gist.github.com/moneyball/071d608fdae217c2a6d7c35955881d8a",
  "current_topic": null,
  "messages": [
    {
      "id": "9748ce749b7741b1b0111f673b182a19",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "#startmeeting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:00:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d0d1d564324e4f5ea20648ed856dda31",
      "sender": "lightningbot",
      "payload": "Meeting started Fri Oct 11 19:00:10 2019 UTC.  The chair is meshcollider. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:00:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "63d1c030b32141f8a6643f1f86500767",
      "sender": "lightningbot",
      "payload": "Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:00:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7fc3b1eede0740598cfecabed7257197",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "#bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:00:16+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c4a1556d9c6641868784253ecff6f8e3",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:00:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "116d63bdcf95414f95ac60484d5feac9",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:00:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f10cc5dd06944c5c895b8a6d6b2db1ca",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "it looks like #16341 is getting close, 2 acks now",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:01:04+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6fc44c5b5bd0493886bf24f090d692cf",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16341 | Introduce ScriptPubKeyMan interface and use it for key and script management (aka wallet boxes) by achow101 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #16341 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:01:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bba6cadb43d54321b494b972f6f881b0",
      "sender": "kanzure",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:01:14+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "96b8d76033064ce1881fe3176e4c3508",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "I think it needs another pair of wallet expert eyes though.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:01:41+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0662550b2ad24884b3ae1e04f34caffc",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "I've been slowly getting through review of it too",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:01:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "65ba4fbbac044d92ae2a5769b1a8d185",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "It looks very good though",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:02:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ded4e29b21c347ac863decc6706d8297",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "achow101: what do you think of russ' branch",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:02:14+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cc8b117999cd484aba8450cf189b5e0b",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:02:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "53eb4f2ae1fc46e183e8ffd3e26304fc",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "it did the thing I wanted to avoid which were the 2 ginormous commits at the beginning",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:02:55+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4c07fbb22b1841ccb383fc9d84fb07a1",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "As I commented, I found it helpful for comparison-review, but -0 on replacing it, because it's not very granular.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:02:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b5f90cb37b4a4e21a428e08815bb069d",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "Yep sweet as :)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:03:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "681747873d1542cbaf1ec9628249b066",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "Ok so with 0.19 branched now, what are the wallet priorities for the next few months",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:03:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "96180a9f623e468bade72d161d2bf755",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "Descriptor wallets would be awesome",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:04:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "53ca7fb9ff384116a23d48c11ad292cb",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "if 16341 gets merged soon, descriptor wallets i guess?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:04:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c5e0b3b26c7f4ef598fb2c7a039e2e64",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I rebased the descriptor wallets pr a few days ago and i'll make it not WIP once 16341 is merged",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:04:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fd02f57b75534410aaaac36de3402ae1",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "Yes",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:04:41+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "80df16a49b9e4cb49780b3b4aa8cfb7b",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "Ok",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:04:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f1d33207e8764ffcb668fd36e95b2ccc",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "Other than that though is anyone else working on anything orthogonal",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:05:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c79902e1eb234c9eba2602bf6a5192fd",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "How is the hardware wallet stuff looking for near term provoo",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:05:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "54c7fb900dbc4130b1f96e07f5c2f79b",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "provoostenator *",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:05:36+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6550aa048e6641a9a1be5aa0282b112a",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "I'm working on adding hardware wallet support to the GUI, in various orthogonal ways. #16966 is probably a good starting point.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:05:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9acb38f598214b5db6a592fb46029cf1",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16966 | ui: make send a wizard by Sjors \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #16966 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:05:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a4fcc3d821bf4c1b925a4da46187f55a",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "Why is it a draft?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:06:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1650ceaa135641d9925a85d1f0c6794f",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "there's a plan to make a gui for HWI to complement #16944",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:06:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b46c12fa7ca242239befb71d486464f4",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16944 | gui: create PSBT with watch-only wallet by Sjors \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #16944 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:06:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5e78b5243de44ce6a3a7108ed5a0cf30",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "meshcollider: because there's a few ugly  things in it and a memoery leak :-) But will be undraft soon.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:07:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "195dc55327154298879c49865c5df981",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "As for RPC hardware wallet support, I'll get that in review-worthy shape once descriptor wallets are merged. I do keep it rebased in the mean time: #16895",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:07:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7229b19c89a94b6e9c05cce63c1c8f4a",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16895 | External signer multisig support by Sjors \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #16895 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:07:58+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e4003b4808cf4774857f5a0bd89ca8cf",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "oh hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:08:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b3bc1b0d16734a1ca9b8de02fcf797d9",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "^ although that got \"needs rebase\" almost immedidatley after I last rebased it yesterday.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:08:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4c446fe4e8c445189f104a7272fe4b0a",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "Very nice, sounds good",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:08:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b4239e856f5c419684bb1b9692590c8f",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "haha",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:08:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4762cd52eab1484e95c5fe18e04a09e8",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "I also have some transaction and key handling optimizations-ish that i'm holding off for after wallet boxes since they conflict",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:08:36+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1c28253d5cdb41c389c98a540d8bcb2a",
      "sender": "provoostenator",
      "payload": "Maybe we can expand the descriptor wallet project to include hardware wallets?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:08:51+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4beba278a4ed4821ac18704855fb3f7b",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "seems like its own project tbh, may have a number of steps",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:09:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "74fcfe32d4b342de8faf537df040c2c9",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "imo there should be a hardware wallet project that includes the descriptor wallet project",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:09:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6d99c91a7d374771b74e970adbd7338c",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "The descriptor wallet project can be superceded once the two main PRs go in",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:09:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "119422a1d8f54ad4870560de3a35ee7a",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "yeah",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:10:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2a9c84d528ea4fc0ae482f509a3a6ef8",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "I guess there's also some GUI wallet stuff like #15204 that has been waiting a while",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:10:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1112eb4b0ff64d95bdf25905ae1a8dc8",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15204 | gui: Add Open External Wallet action by promag \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #15204 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:10:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "800a54799d1642f7bacd83ab7ffd91c5",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "Ok so any topics people want to discuss today?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:10:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fff5954e44d14a948bd0ecfa586fb1fd",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "miniscript for signing post-descriptor wallet?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:12:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fc317f2d551a45528e7b86ab1968ffc4",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "how much work is that sipa :P",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:12:50+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "38e474b498d04781afdff31c4711e9db",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "requires all of miniscript?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:13:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d35a5c8925434c77b0023a35bfa62b11",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "did someone say miniscript?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:13:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6078f7f5423e40f085d09ce36c1ee32b",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "well we have one unsolved problem still, which is accurate witness size estimation for generic miniscript",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:13:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "19ace6fe235b4b24abe6fcb88357efa7",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "Oh! ok",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:13:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "534fb8c8d2dc4fa49d803471feee4d53",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "but signing is a solved problem",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:13:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8474a11fb35040d49a74f72998d6b1e0",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "i have code :)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:13:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fbef8e512da645268436d90caaad0da0",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "tested against consensus/standardness",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:13:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f1f8c4d40ca14f6885d3880733b5d3a6",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "when pr",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:14:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "17517c7c4df743a9ac8da772c87b5f86",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "very nice. I am dreaming of telescoping multisig policies and other nonsense for personal use ;P",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:14:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "02b891cb4a9846998d040d65ef7f656e",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "#16800",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:14:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "42b89225b8cd4035b7b2ecbaed04a85b",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16800 | Basic Miniscript support in output descriptors by sipa \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #16800 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:14:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f0609dc65aa041a89911cadb37ab6506",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "that's the first step :)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:14:41+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fb7a105d3d2e42378452b0975f4edf15",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "ah yes 2000 loc",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:15:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a92f004923a94c34b77925cc61249e3f",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "a lot is tests :p",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:15:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1ed08bc6101a4567bdf9dce0bbb11108",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "ok I guess that's on my review pile, alongside 16341",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:15:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "14ac594cdd1241739dec0219c57d70e5",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "could you rebase",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:15:52+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5bc7aaaff7d444c0aa3ccd02b316009a",
      "sender": "bitcoin-git",
      "payload": "[bitcoin] ernestognw opened pull request #17110: fix(appveyor): Add -l test_suite to .appveyor.yaml. (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17110",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:16:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "581311df75814ba9a5da541803056344",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "just a thought, if descriptor wallets is released before miniscript descriptors, we will need to have a wallet flag or something to avoid people making wallets with miniscript descriptors that aren't backwards compatible",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:16:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "391262d985124749bc4593a59fe1b0cd",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "sipa are you waiting for #16889 before rebasinf",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:17:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5718022f085c400db93e250d502f343a",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16889 | Add some general std::vector utility functions by sipa \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #16889 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:17:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "42fc196ddeb44b50a5fc4a0dd54f9b78",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "throw Solver at things you're importing that involve privkeys, or something",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:17:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "613e0549f88e44778e9354e6c478988b",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "yeah",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:17:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4253ef6be0e54741864e8811cb1dc5fc",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "meshcollider: i'm sure 16889 will be merged long before miniscript is actually merge-ready",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:19:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e13906be10754b68a241e6d4641e43fb",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "i can rebase; there are a bunch of improvements in the miniscript repo (https://github.com/sipa/miniscript) that i need to include in the PR as well",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:20:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b3c3233a8d5b497a9ca3991ed9e862c1",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "preventing stack overflow when parsing among them, which is kind of a deal breaker...",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:20:29+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a126058b7d4b4750bcb5a3ef2fb4fddf",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "is there going to be a bip for miniscript and descriptors?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:20:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ed692b59c8f74238af6e4a11f2996c89",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "imho, no",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:20:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "539d5bcda9f74b0798e7ae6ac609c24c",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "i think we should aim to make sure that wherever two pieces of software accept the same descriptor, it refers to the same script in both",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:21:16+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0c1b89ca730845ae9aecc7cf91787b22",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "but there isn't much of a requirement that everyone supports the exact same set of features",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:21:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "75a2903a76d745cea5f41a2e753aca90",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "i think we could have a bip at some point that simply defines the miniscript-compatible subset of script",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:22:14+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5cd35d137ded4e37994e85158ec7f66b",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "but maybe not now",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:22:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3654554155224f06bee648e1f95a0ef3",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "ok",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:22:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "57191a3636fc448794f3600ec5f5dd44",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "because say a hardware signing device that supports miniscript doesn't actually need to support its textual notation",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:22:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "258764ad8a4f4fea8811dbaf0eeac93e",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "i've heard that some other wallet devs are intereseted in using miniscript and descriptors so it would be nice to have some \"official\" docs",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:23:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b195ad1ad7f1487990893c2ec4883b28",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "http://bitcoin.sipa.be/miniscript/ :)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:23:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e372d2212d6344ffbbe31c79671c5575",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "sure, but bips are cooler :)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:24:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b66b216937744123835bd324946874f3",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "libraries even cooler",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:24:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "afd49ebd1d6d4734838727b1b6e19e1c",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "yeah, maybe at some point",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:24:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5e5b122a89d141cd8ea815313cb3edfa",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "^",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:24:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dbd23ae5ecb34dd38c2dd6e693a11053",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "https://github.com/sipa/miniscript/issues/26",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:25:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "631c32a4a0fa4a888730891a31df9ad0",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "sipa, if you can't estimate witness size in closed form or whatever you call it, why can't it just sign(hallucinate using other privkeys if it doesn't have them) and just see the end witness size?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:29:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7dc56a2edd3c495d80a04effcd94d80c",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "instagibbs: that may be intractable",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:29:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9cdf25dde2344152801bdd29d46a0b40",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "if there are 100 keys involved, you have 2^100 combinations to try",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:30:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d138921ae59644b1a59234844de4d8c0",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "not quite getting it, if you are told you know specific keys, why is it slower than actually signing, or is this begging the question",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:30:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "145e5d33274b435887ad1d9ddd5b4104",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "instagibbs: oh by witness size estimation i mean before you know which keys are going to be involved in signing",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:31:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2ada0a7de0ea4dccb8b0902e0c081ed4",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "it's trivial to do if you do know this",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:32:14+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a7e47293bf2948d291c055bb527b4227",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "ok",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:32:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "491a961725634a17b34a5d57e0231dbf",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "why do you need to know the witness size before knowing who is going to sign?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:33:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b76fec982e364c3a99951a865f38b596",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "because you're going to construct a PSBT that takes this into account for its",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:33:36+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f1b1419cc8054b7b85a92668f158ad95",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "fee",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:33:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9cc9ec37a0b54a4ebad2ea672d68d458",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "and then pass it around by everyone, and see what comes out",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:33:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9d3f40b1d66c44fb8041b6506f7dfb8c",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "if you know exactly ahead of time which participants will be online, that's easy",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:34:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "185cd887c850434eb2b7e75f3024492b",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "another side of it is that the signers may want to know that what they're signing will eventually have an acceptable feerate",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:34:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6b48d45f254e41a9bed852fc98c5fc48",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "but they may not know which other signers will eventually contribute",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:34:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8dd4f2cd407641ef8f8bc82ceebd576d",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "But the size varies right? There is no \"size\" before you know",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:35:19+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "58c0165805d945dda98be680592f77dd",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "there is an upper bound",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:35:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7b621245a2ae4229a97efbac7f63c1f6",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "is it just too expensive to compute the size for all possible valid signer combinations and just choose the largest?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:35:51+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f685d6a00924446bb0431bb173ff9e0a",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "if there are more than a dozen keys involves that may become quickly become intractable",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:36:21+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b77488d12849405792d8bd910835655f",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "E.g. like a segment tree",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:37:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0c0efb6b7ba649649e12cbde1a0594fe",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "and we used to think we had an efficient algorithm for this, but turns out it actually doesn't work :p",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:37:02+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dbf3cab5702344d79a93fe4ee3a7e722",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "miniscript friendship over",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:38:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d66208c979a94a1d803510ebab7c7c32",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "lol",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:38:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9a5fd2ed46a449ba80561d36d8f61613",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "haha",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:38:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3d2e9d36a8c9416b8d4c201be74f2840",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "with a less tight conservative estimate it's easy still... but it may overshoot by a lot in some cases",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:39:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4f1f4029762945e190d31557afa70cb1",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "is the original algorithm + it's issue documented somewhere",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:40:09+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f2a37b2c327e434cb0a902933f0d9078",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "well, good to know, for now for descriptor wallet purposes we just assume we will pick keys then estimate",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:40:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "51ea4eb120514897b9b163de4db23aed",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "Anything else to talk about today?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:41:36+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f4e895d50f2f4328b00153062ff5fea3",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "#endmeeting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2019-10-11T19:42:41+00:00"
    }
  ],
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    {
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        "sender": "gribble",
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    {
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        "sender": "sipa",
        "payload": "http://bitcoin.sipa.be/miniscript/ :)",
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      "operand": "http://bitcoin.sipa.be/miniscript/",
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