{
  "founder": "wumpus",
  "channel": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "network": "freenode",
  "id": "cbc2640d295642edb2ecb1329cfb398b",
  "name": "#bitcoin-core-dev",
  "chair": "wumpus",
  "chairs": [
    "wumpus"
  ],
  "nicks": {
    "wumpus": 39,
    "lightningbot": 2,
    "achow101": 3,
    "sipa": 55,
    "jonasschnelli": 60,
    "cfields": 11,
    "promag": 6,
    "kanzure": 1,
    "instagibbs": 1,
    "jnewbery": 1,
    "gribble": 5,
    "bitcoin-git": 1,
    "meshcollider": 1,
    "luke-jr": 5,
    "gmaxwell": 20
  },
  "start_time": "2018-06-28T19:00:56+00:00",
  "end_time": "2018-06-28T19:59:47+00:00",
  "active": false,
  "original_topic": "Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | This is the channel for developing Bitcoin Core. Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev, http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/",
  "current_topic": "P2Plink ephemeral encryptio",
  "messages": [
    {
      "id": "b9e0a58a215f40c9a191ff8fab6721f3",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "#startmeeting",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:00:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f46d900ab44d46aea4e678eff4fbd16a",
      "sender": "lightningbot",
      "payload": "Meeting started Thu Jun 28 19:00:56 2018 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:00:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "eab53da1221c461ab7bd0778799027ec",
      "sender": "lightningbot",
      "payload": "Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:00:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9e49fca9d76c4e4a8eaf86b4cda5725a",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:01:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6f7984625ac7419e8a6bea6f4a65ff7f",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:01:17+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "13a80d3f1c6040d5af804f4c1e47415d",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:01:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c284d93ab9cf4b37ab030f3f2838b040",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:01:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "56365ffe9d9b444b922de17450368105",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "#bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr btcdrak sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:01:43+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "518ae2d988204c0a97203204a1467bf7",
      "sender": "promag",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:02:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "63a3f157f8424561b213b7e775adb129",
      "sender": "kanzure",
      "payload": "hi.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:02:08+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "916c4cd41a85462883066a382710e0b9",
      "sender": "instagibbs",
      "payload": "hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:02:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7cf6baebb0c24bc6a10fe0dd6480542f",
      "sender": "jnewbery",
      "payload": "half a hi. May be a little distracted for the next ~45 minutes",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:02:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ae2fd455baf94f0aba7426c6fefeeb0d",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "I've had a really crappy week so haven't been able to do much, sorry for that",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:02:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "be14bcd46bc547cc9147ec4ebbcee329",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "sorry to hear that",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:02:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "28a24dd6198d4f5c98cd7f59dc82a5c4",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "#topic high priority for review",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:02:58+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f539e2bb276d488ab0c74087f011b4a3",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "Currently on the list: #13425 #12196 #13062",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:03:42+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1f6aac41ad404ff1a8598e8d013740e0",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13425 | Moving final scriptSig construction from CombineSignatures to ProduceSignature (PSBT signer logic) by achow101 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #13425 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:03:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dda078ed97524213b9c747f120ccbb0b",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "wumpus: :(",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:03:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "90bc1ba4ab064706b8107677310ef7d2",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12196 | Add scantxoutset RPC method by jonasschnelli \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #12196 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:03:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "facd01fa181443e2bdd563e391cb9781",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "only three PRs!",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:03:52+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f6e508b573334e41bb460b0b599781fd",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13062 | Make script interpreter independent from storage type CScript by sipa \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #13062 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:03:52+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "63c09bbc64fd46c2a179525b3d4d6daf",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "For 12196, I'm not sure if it make sense to adopt sipas output scripts descriptors in the PR itself (or later)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:04:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f1fd741295504f7a8f7fd24074cf1d54",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "i'd like to bring up an idea i've been working on for future wallet design/ismine logic, which may interact with #12196",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:04:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "860772d1b3ff44e5a3c45137a9144db5",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "(since it already has some reviews/acks)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:04:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "01a7ea9634e842239fc6922d329c3ed6",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12196 | Add scantxoutset RPC method by jonasschnelli \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #12196 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:04:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a513f4a749cd44b2a117ce89d27fea47",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: I think it makes sense to merge something, as you say it has a lot of ACKs, further improvements can be done later unless the current state is really unacceptable",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:05:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0b6015aa7bb94454b1978f72da3d2402",
      "sender": "bitcoin-git",
      "payload": "[bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #13566: Fix get balance (master...fix_get_balance) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13566",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:05:27+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "77001670ce8840eb93343b059a2ed379",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "wumpus: it's more so that we create something that remains compatible with future APIs",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:05:41+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f9890de8a1ca4dcd845905394a1be3fc",
      "sender": "meshcollider",
      "payload": "Hi",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:05:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "fc2ab3a8fa444868be360512698dfbbf",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "sipa: the API will have to be finalized before the 0.17 release",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:06:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "33a8446ee42f40beb27fbd5cd64d0da3",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "(but i understand the desire to merge something; my comment would only apply to the xpub functionality)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:06:02+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "217f374ad2fb4d57b750060063038bac",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "so FWIW feature freeze for 0.17 is 2018-07-16, if the PR is already merged by then then improvement can be considered a bugfix",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:06:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c93eeac21a4845fea570bd600f250851",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "perhaps i should clarify the scope",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:06:49+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "01041a3ae4dc47e1910c6b6aba89d2f1",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Yes. Please",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:06:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "35e5b396f86d482c97d6941dff036305",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "my idea for output descriptors is here: https://gist.github.com/sipa/e3d23d498c430bb601c5bca83523fa82",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:07:02+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "775084a887b440cf8016ecb76c46c413",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "i also have a prototype implementation for most of it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:07:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "10e9afe1e5284982a73a9d28780bb406",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "nice!",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:07:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bd5cea42fd5442fb8feec888f25b3fbc",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Yes. I really like it.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:07:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "379794e45270434a90b4235c50bb67d5",
      "sender": "promag",
      "payload": "wumpus: for 0.17, dyn multi-wallet in the UI is required?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:07:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "67777775576d4de69534430fdd7999b5",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "it is a general language that encodes all information about how to spend a whole set of keys with associated addresses/scripts/private keys/.... into one string, including support for multisig etc",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:07:51+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "65efbf07a572441f97fac9fbbba801c0",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "promag: why?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:07:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b0a2943cf53b4a449cf2d726ea4e385f",
      "sender": "promag",
      "payload": "it's a question",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:08:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cbc081b698cd401db31a56ac33d1c6b9",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "promag: we want toh ave things consistent before a release, at least, apart from that it's simply a matter of what makes it in",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:08:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "aca4068525b64504b83688a581f4663c",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "my desire is that the entire wallet moves to something like that (so it's an implementation of my wallet descriptor rant i wrote a while ago: https://gist.github.com/sipa/125cfa1615946d0c3f3eec2ad7f250a2)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:08:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ed4716f8556d47a3b3422b4172cc12e4",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "I recognized it :)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:08:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "56bdbbafea9b4818be6c9a7f3e816a75",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "sipa: +1, that makes a ton of sense",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:09:04+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1a9ec53a7d4948b6a24618a8e0a5e36f",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "so import/export would operate at the level of those descriptors, instead of individual keys/scripts/pubkeys/hdchains/...",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:09:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a4725ba410c8476eb33af21d92056bef",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "importmulti is already compatible with that design, for a large extent",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:09:40+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "12fa0ae635334fcaa8a50f05ebd70a5e",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "the entirety of that idea is certainly not for 0.17, however",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:10:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d901c3e4b4b04428b3057d1ef83fadf3",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "but that doesn't mean it can't be used already in relatively small scoped things already",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:10:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "790f86f038524f0f90ca516499f312de",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "and scanutxoset is one of those",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:10:52+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e89c6ff1323c452e8ba08f4e56b37aa3",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "what API changes would you propose for scantxoutset so we can migrate towards the output descriptors in the same cycle as migrating importmulti?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:10:54+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c409ebc94a5444f99685fe0f8628c048",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "that would be very last minute, but at least using it as a guideline to be compatible with the current stuff makes sense",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:11:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "78f95f17da694559aefac388bee65c62",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: you may not like this, but what about just dropping xpub support from the PR right now",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:11:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7874c66f8f774344a37ec6f5823291f8",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "sipa: this makes the PR pretty useless... :(",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:11:36+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2745d9867f65427b93c2b7dd3252441b",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "and then i'll PR the descriptor language, together with integration into scanutxoset",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:11:42+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1372b418a3a4432fb7a7ee54775943e7",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: i understand",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:12:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "db163201d96f4f369bee9abf1307b385",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "feel free to disagree",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:12:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "08e5e0a015d3417ba39784ebb10b2e61",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "it makes sense to divide it up like that",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:12:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "76eeed1dafb4459bb7e9e5e316d15cc9",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "But if the API break would be complex and painful, we can do that.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:12:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b3952a6374324437b4768537ef4a6db3",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "makes tha change smaller and less complex",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:12:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bc59f3a791cb481f978d5b7598ce86c8",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "I don't disagree... :)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:12:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b7f008a225c14ca1832dd1d83408b32d",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "(besides sipa's point of course)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:12:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d0d758cf27394efd9ebea44eb1953610",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "if your concern is that it may not make it in for 0.17, you can still PR the (already written) xpub support as is later, before feature freeze?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:13:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "edd7b6e1f5d34ea29c31c597f068d4cb",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Sure... I guess its also not utterly bad if the xpub will be in 0.18.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:13:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9e5dd646e8d0402f9b051f67610171f5",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Okay. Will remove the xpub stuff",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:13:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ab8900f081264f0990cbea65a5549330",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "thank you. i promise i'll work on having a PRable implementation soon",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:14:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d2db1bce9f8b4edfacef6272a9f7d853",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "The question of a gap limit came up recently (related to the xpub situation) but this concept seems not to work with utxo based scans..",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:14:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6f42a651e6e14826a9dcf19a49258fde",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "So a fixed lookup window makes more sense IMO",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:14:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d4186794ef684a3598431d29acf6f08d",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "agree",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:15:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7c449746cc954817bb0a41fd2db87a62",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: that's actually a good point against having a gap limit inside the descriptor language",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:15:50+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f0951866728a4e2cbb39f8a58350907b",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "(as a gap limit is not relevant for all use cases)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:15:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a897742c7be54943a902f22a48fb1573",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "gap limit is a broken concept IMO",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:16:16+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0df6d2fd2a1b47b78947afcc32504fd7",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "I would not use it in the descriptors...",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:16:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "10bba025b5b24b66bb82dbb21eda4de7",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "in the context of high priority PRs that's all i have to say about it; but we can discuss this idea in more detail as a separate topic if there's interest",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:18:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a2658f96a34144a7a67d5a439799b189",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Thanks for working on this sipa. will give more feedback soon.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:18:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a2fac76ce74f4f699a616f61dc69d800",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "any proposals for adding high-priority PRs, or rmaoving them?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:18:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "693d2af49eee4ae197058008b2f9fcb6",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "heh I already considered doing a #topic change",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:18:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1242113416b84b9ea2e36beddb664270",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "I have two topic requests: a) Cipherseed, b) Cores BIP32 derivation \"standard\"",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:19:04+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "eb63af1838aa46c3ad963b2d0c8e488a",
      "sender": "promag",
      "payload": "wumpus: I'll complete #13100 soon and it could go to hp list",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:19:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a13167d938bc4f9492f445188b63aeac",
      "sender": "gribble",
      "payload": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13100 | gui: Add menu entry to open wallet by promag \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 Pull Request #13100 \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 bitcoin/bitcoin \u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00b7 GitHub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:19:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d28ba983e4fe4623bc1dea51d58a9ac1",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "let's add it whwen it's ready then",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:20:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "eb08fd3d12b440de907faa3e22bad612",
      "sender": "promag",
      "payload": "once ready",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:20:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5ef194607a284c909c8cea9d2e958f1b",
      "sender": "promag",
      "payload": "yes",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:20:08+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "33a5df7a6e1249bf9fe77552581ca717",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "#topic cipherseed",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:20:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cb26d57967004c4d80c06d7a2720ed27",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "I have a specification draft for a new seed format similar to BIP39 with some neat properties and \u00c3\u00a2\u00c2\u0080\u00c2\u0093\u00c3\u0082\u00c2\u00a0before sending to the ML \u00c3\u00a2\u00c2\u0080\u00c2\u0093 would appreciate feedback.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:20:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b2890e7aea7441949d1d3930bf340eef",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "https://gist.github.com/jonasschnelli/245f35894f6ff585b3f3d33c6f208991",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:20:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6ca1d01dd3ab47da9117c73b67aef6a6",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "(its more an announcement then a topic, sry)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:21:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "071954f4cba548ca9d8a0c285ec24488",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "#link https://gist.github.com/jonasschnelli/245f35894f6ff585b3f3d33c6f208991",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:22:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "08aa891f71fa4f9b92deaf6ec0e62797",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "thanks for letting us know, will have a look",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:22:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a2450458b4464f238e0a24f483c55ce9",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "right, as no one has read it, I don't think there's much to discuss now",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:22:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "4547f476f40a49639818d237e02608fc",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "#topic cores BIP32 derivation \"standard\"",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:22:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "30997a2e4cea42b18e11839906b983be",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "It came up today in a discussion: Cores BIP32 derivation scheme is not specified in a BIP",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:22:50+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ffeb5b1b2fb44a78b1f7c13164137c60",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Some people think its vanilla/native BIP32... but its not... while other do native BIP32",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:23:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "37f3400e208843f797415b43c54808d8",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "I'm not sure if we should define a standard for out derivation scheme...",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:23:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "5ea96940404f4813a58d08fb78ef15d3",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "(would be a very short proposal)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:23:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "707a7f019cfd47668e83a306dc3b6c27",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "agree ti would be good if the difference would be documented somewhere",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:23:42+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c1722fa9f4924baaacacf50896b6794c",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: my thinking is that with output descriptors we can pretty much freely change it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:23:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "24645b4ead914ec095118da36cba861d",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "The BIP32 based derivation scheme has that security risk",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:23:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c9489753c6d04a21a1d014557654ea59",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "(including unhardened etc)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:24:08+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b809011974b44fd0ad2340d29f0509a1",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Changing the scheme is one point,... but there are wallets out there following a derivation scheme that is not specified in word",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:24:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dd39b4a260ac470f8dcb72192860bed5",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "*words",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:24:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1226d4976f4346e89772c886035deeb0",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "how does it affect other implementations?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:25:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "80242645ac5e41c68ac3101d12fbb877",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "we could have a doc in our source tree that describes it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:25:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8bc0c39e8b07497c9c68f043c4515588",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "luke-jr: only in the sense that other implementations might want to replicate it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:25:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dcfc307524d241bb9491504f35f98bcb",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "i don't think it needs to be a bip; there's no real desire to convince others to adopt the same, i think?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:25:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "45da1006ecee4623bdd41b99c4c1a19a",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "luke-jr: in case someone wants to import Cores xprivs...",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:25:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9b87f1f459eb413d880f3f1d97f2a1b9",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "wumpus: why?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:25:33+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e93995561d80436bb0df5c9412bc9915",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "luke-jr: I don't know",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:25:50+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "38b50f8f287a4403979c6eea04e90a09",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: but not import a proper wallet in entirety?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:25:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0e64daf21c6a4daaa08b4ac208f2e120",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "I precautionally wrote a tiny BIP,... but could also be used as an internal document: https://gist.github.com/jonasschnelli/0d383888ac51d5120540571173e35451",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:26:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dadb808a2b9c4f508b280357edc4ccc5",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "(if there were a BIP, I would think it should cover the whole wallet format, not *just* derivation)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:26:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "d265832b3d2346499a425705956f24b3",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "luke-jr: saw my descriptor proposal above? :)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:26:36+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "727f3e1f50f143a2a567d5db891e67e7",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "just documnting the derivation in the docs repo is sufficient imo",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:26:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1066fda91d2f4927b735f9862b3d7a81",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "I think following BIP32 for \"hot\" wallets with private key export options is not ideal... Electrum does that as example",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:26:52+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6f1976912de343d8aa4e6dd0f9b82685",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "my point is that i don't think our scheme is particularly an improvement over alternatives, or has all that much design we want to convince others about",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:27:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8a40901f43cc468aaab74188bd2505a0",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "it's just one of many choices, and the one we made",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:28:08+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e3aebda76b8e445892746320b19ab0dd",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Agree with that. Yes.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:28:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2039ba93c9bd449aa754263a1752da4f",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "so we should just document it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:28:23+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0d75c51cb1fd44f79321cf55d9abb342",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "ack",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:28:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3ed6c0247b5b4e499d42beb93feb50dd",
      "sender": "achow101",
      "payload": "+1",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:28:54+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b2509226a04644aa91179b93332a168a",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "Seems good.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:28:55+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6bf049e700bc4f58ac617d28f6fe4c6f",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "agree",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:29:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0cec0dc58f954a98af814d26b1afefa3",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "I think this leaves sipa's topic, but I think that's more or less discussed already?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:30:36+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "aca065bfb073498a83c41ddf4bd3e71f",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "yeah, probably needs people reading the idea first to discuss more; can be done offline",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:31:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "769d002aeb604b2992c2b99a6f7373e3",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "right",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:31:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7158c80ac86b47dfbe5e1c2d62708763",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "sipa: how would it interact with the keypool, flexible keypath?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:31:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0e4fab2bd9044d5e9216c730c7d2d610",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "and a xpub",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:31:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "45b24a13523d40c5b4b3cf368fe6941d",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: keypool goes away",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:31:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "717f23753cc84b7eb9dc53d4534d77f1",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "good riddance",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:32:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b278e980eb7e45029c42c0d1f645d77d",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "there is ephemeral data in the wallet associated with the descriptor (which is a black box, and descriptor specific), but in practice contains the expanded pubkeys",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:32:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a0dd5aa941ee49b1b4e3ea55e79a4626",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "that takes the place of the keypool- but those things don't all translate to independent keys in the wallet",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:32:57+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "45ec4bf764574a709340cba3aad73ecd",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "there would just be a single private key in your wallet, for example",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:33:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a58cea5810204882bb0d49ec4b182d9e",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "(or none at all; it can be in a hardware device too)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:33:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6916c323d4844e72a61f25e7d50c88f8",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "flexible keypath... the descriptor just contains the path",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:33:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "571e1a166ce940d59e603e01bc026994",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "you can change it to whatever you like (but default wallets would of course pick some standard scheme)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:34:11+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "98ae612fd5a6416785a6fc07b8ed2b07",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "or rather you can import things with whatever path you like",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:34:51+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e42d3e09bc084f00934d1c2bd787a333",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "makes sense",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:36:09+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "94a5bdc076654e63aeb17f11fcbf6119",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Would it make sense that the descriptor support pkh(d34db33f/44'/0'/0':<seed>/1/i). (seed along with xpriv)?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:36:27+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a2b5296fa1f44c0e815288e23240563b",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "for backward compatibility",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:36:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f3086af9f0324aa3a5505d571ca9cc6f",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: i've thought about that, but that makes descriptors non-canonical",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:36:53+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ff4fd6add2d84d69b7a8617a00ffec56",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "(as in: you can't convert them to \"public\" form and back, and retain all information)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:37:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "505fa0201a7941c5ac72487db0631c7c",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "i'm unsure how to deal with that; my thinking is initially no",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:37:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "938b5843fd014daa9626c6bcc118d7a8",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "you can always implement it as an extra utility that converts from seed based format",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:38:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3c6d9221b85d424fa2c423ab73377a33",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "There is always the option of externally converting the seed to an xpriv, yes",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:38:20+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "82304b2580f24e64a0cf035cbfd53bd5",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "we can encode seeds into xprivs *duck*",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:39:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b65002a8ddf54814aed1f0b5a0ddaac0",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "Not to hijack, but has there been any progress towards implementing P2P link ephemeral encryption lately?  I know we were kinda waiting for some other networking refactors.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:39:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "759ab627699244ccba22b9e9f31262cb",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "cfields: ping?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:40:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2f3cf5197c0e4e7ab3ddc86c8f642f6e",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "#topic  P2Plink ephemeral encryptio",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:40:12+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f729bdd823204373b2a8b6f3f3ff97d6",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "I'm ready to pick that up any moment but was under the impression that sipa had plans to implement it",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:40:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7715a21d9281406cb1b558fd27c8aaaa",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "I started with the implementation but halted at some point...",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:40:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b408837258a94785a5a798242a158f3d",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "I'm also not sure if we should delay it further more for \"refactors\"",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:40:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c53ca5e2e50e45ec98845fdf3ce29223",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "I believed sipa did too, but asformentioned delays.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:40:55+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "28ec1c68970d4a7ba482a2a0e76153ad",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "heh, I was waiting on it to firm up. Guess we were waiting in circles :)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:41:00+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "c7580d9ee81c42589fe025ee20f5c44c",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "hehe",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:41:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6d18612de31b4f08949b9cc1e29e4352",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: for sure",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:41:10+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0290c2ae1af549d1865cc47df8545431",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "BTW: armory has implemented it and has plans to PR it to Core",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:41:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a672da2d4de241bbb5351f28e3992c1c",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "Sipa and I made some major advances in the authentication part but the encryption doesn't need to wait on that.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:41:26+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ad79c6dd551a496c8ec2e0d52de7cd87",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "(not sure how soon and in what quality)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:41:27+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ca2e83af95124a068868359a5e3fd227",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "cfields: waiting for encryption proposal to firm up before implementing it? or before continuing with network refactors?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:41:28+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1407379b2c9c4e59b54d72b97632abd3",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: oh wow",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:41:44+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0d0963de04454daa851d7c7803d5f215",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Agree with gmaxwell. Authentication can be added later.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:42:04+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2f07aeb532cb4b0ab96887356491aa4a",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "sipa: i've had to put the net stuff on the backburner for now, so certainly don't wait for that.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:42:22+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "19d1624d8cf644e8b417666fbfeef3d1",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "cfields: cool",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:42:30+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bb93f295df904872b7433705135e99c1",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "cfields: I think BIP151 is almost final (there is some issues with the version handshake)... the only thing that was holding me back where possible network refactors to first wait for",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:43:07+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a8c47a95cdaa40f39bd05935a0d2c1ce",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "I'm happy to help with the implementation. I was thinking we were waiting on the auth stuff.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:43:15+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ab4cb7a4f0a74cf1a4d7cd6c74e118a4",
      "sender": "luke-jr",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: it can't be Final until it is adopted..",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:43:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "246e41a9c19e4820b503341be1ce1437",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "no, they're designed to operated independantly.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:43:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "7ea535c8cf8847938efd91b5e4e0aa2f",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Auth is additional and implementation wise it comes after 151",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:43:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1ce95d58fa71470196298f8e6dbcad35",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "we can implement 151 without 150",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:43:37+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a4427731b44743b0a268919c743e97d6",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "I would rather not use the prior auth design, we have better ones now.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:43:51+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "6abb4a9a7f674e878ba57ca7b60c8cb3",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Yes. 150 can also be replaced (coexist) with other auth proposals",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:43:54+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "a20936f4388d4cd985fd0701a9aee00a",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "fair",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:43:59+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "76bba57f9b5c4458a0da1939f31dbce2",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Agree with that.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:44:08+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "08f89e01a3174984864f2dd6569f11c9",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "sipas prework is here AFAIK: https://gist.github.com/sipa/29118d3fcfac69f9930d57433316c039",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:44:32+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "63d286f8098d4dd8bb93cb485e27d3f7",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "i need to pick that up again",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:44:46+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b8d87fa379024b0c9fa70d982e912cb9",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "but right, there is no need delay 151 on auth-- it's completely oblivious to auth.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:44:50+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "8516ee2bb6d54570be421ac52546337d",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "I guess it uses some non-standard crypto stuff though",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:45:04+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "45e7e838c99f4413b7e865406f55b06e",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: no, https://gist.github.com/sipa/d7dcaae0419f10e5be0270fada84c20b",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:45:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ad202ab08fd84e20ae27528cba165261",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Oh. Mistaken your gist. Thansk",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:45:39+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cf943d8603b7465e887430027af6ab6a",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "*thanks",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:45:42+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e4fbaab77c8c44818590b1d967fc92ff",
      "sender": "sipa",
      "payload": "the other link is just some cool trick, not a serious proposal",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:45:45+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "2a253361a1f04b54aa7a6092ba0a43be",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Okay. If no one else wants to work on the implementation, I will continue then with BIP151 impl.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:46:48+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "df9003ee79b349e384456d3eb2e1a73c",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "Basically there was an open question of if we wanted the encryption handshake to operate in such a way that there are no fixed bytes for easy blocking/detection.  But I think we thought the benefits were too dubious.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:47:08+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "dc44987717f640e68572cf0c8d8eb2eb",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "Esp since traffic patterns will identify bitcoin p2p links very clearly.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:47:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "9ffe253c91214d16af53745bddcf3824",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "too dubious? you mean foiled by dpi anyway?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:47:34+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bf12af118b8d472f9f47cd56830e205a",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "And so probably better to just stick to something simple.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:47:40+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "0771c5eeeff044d0bd0c85aaf1bf0bd5",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Agree",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:47:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b851b34cba854cb9a935383366ce3194",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "hiding what kind of connection something is is very difficult",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:47:55+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "b654d81ec7874a5084bc321c63b580f7",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "cfields: foiled by traffic analysis or smarer DPI (that does EC operations to match traffic)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:48:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1c8bf72e21bd44de9c2f6224051d985c",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "smarter*",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:48:09+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e2238ce402f940ec8346907b805b9c75",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "People can always carry bitcoin over other transports in any case, ... ones that can do things like pad out to a constant bitrate...",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:48:35+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f433f509f43b413588fcdd62379e3bdc",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "but we're certantly not going to make BIP151 do that. :P",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:48:52+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1b7c689bee394764ba6b1a5038f2c52a",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "mm, that's a good point",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:48:56+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1fe05b6f385b493c9eae8d66bca4b506",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "which is why tor went with pluggable obfuscation layers, this for example: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1305.3199.pdf",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:49:24+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "09e5bf85c2644278b2efc575736249be",
      "sender": "wumpus",
      "payload": "might be creeping the scope a bit too much",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:49:47+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "51765f14055f4277a3e44939ae34bdfd",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "in any case, changing the handshake to be harder to detect was the only 'maybe' design change that I'm aware of any of us considering.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:50:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "f6627fa11a4f409ca79bb116184371d1",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "For 151.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:50:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "cbd19000d56646acab37a0ff7a8508a9",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "You mean an obfuscation of the encryption handshake?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:51:03+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3b353d9a19444d189a64eae4ad9df1ab",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "So I think we're good to implement, and the only changes that might be proposed would be ones that arose as a side effect of implementing and benchmarking.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:51:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "ee930e66b85e426e84265e5d8d749ea7",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: yes.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:51:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "340ae8c1f17b4c90af458d4d6c6fcd67",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Yes. I think there is freedom to change the specs during implementation...",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:52:01+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "3bd74693e0be4ba19f2c79c1a8f73fea",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "And my view is that it's not worthwhile because without other more complex obfscuation (which will be bandwidth costly) it'll still be pretty detectable.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:52:04+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "1ecd087fbddb4044a9eb18251c061104",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "It's not really deployed on the network yet",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:52:08+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "bb56b79a3a73405b929d7c70cef2d668",
      "sender": "gmaxwell",
      "payload": "right.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:52:51+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "76da06be20a74e4fb9682021cb05c4e1",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "Yes. Better not obscure and put efforts in a long term solutions (stuff like the ScrambleSuit)",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:53:31+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "55a09b6939724f8a8f588de650e38465",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "my only complaint was that it required message parsing to complete the handshake, but it's been a while since I looked, so I'm not sure if that's still the case. I also got the impression that nobody else seemed all that bothered by that anyway.",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:54:13+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "537d931e76164dd8b2218639778b3e2e",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "can you elaborate a bit more on \" it required message parsing to complete the handshak\"?",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:55:06+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "26e4bc807207421cb95209b55c8d30a8",
      "sender": "cfields",
      "payload": "jonasschnelli: we can discuss after the meeting, I need to take a look at the current spec",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:56:18+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "51fde0261d274adb95f5303581a8342f",
      "sender": "jonasschnelli",
      "payload": "sure. Thanks cfields",
      "action": false,
      "timestamp": "2018-06-28T19:56:25+00:00"
    },
    {
      "id": "e14bb518cc954371a2703bbc136eca3a",
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      "payload": "#endmeeting",
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